Author Topic: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?  (Read 39156 times)

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #270 on: July 08, 2013, 08:50:12 AM »
As a data point, I hand delivered my entries (assistant organizer, so I just walked them to the cooler) in KC. I entered 4 beers and advanced 2. 50%, not bad right? Anyway, I have a "clone" of Boulevard's Saison-Brett, a beer you likely cannot get outside of the Midwest. I enter it in 16E with the description, "Saison with dregs from Boulevard's Saison-Brett". In the Midwest, it cleans up in competition. At a recent comp, Stan H. commented something to the effect of "Excellent beer, the brewers at Boulevard would be happy to know that this is how their beers are being used." It placed first at the KC NHC Regional over 68 entries in Belgian & French.

It got a 30 in Philly. It averages a 40.3 in the comps it's been to here in the Midwest.

Perhaps it's a combination of shipping times/heat, regional knowledge and a bit of voodoo? FWIW, I judged at the 2012 finals and was surprised at the lack of really great beer as well.

I wonder if a more detailed description would help your beer fare better in areas where they do not know the joy of Saison-Brett as we do. I can't imagine a couple weeks of warm transport would destroy a brett beer.
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #271 on: July 08, 2013, 08:56:22 AM »
As a data point, I hand delivered my entries (assistant organizer, so I just walked them to the cooler) in KC. I entered 4 beers and advanced 2. 50%, not bad right? Anyway, I have a "clone" of Boulevard's Saison-Brett, a beer you likely cannot get outside of the Midwest. I enter it in 16E with the description, "Saison with dregs from Boulevard's Saison-Brett". In the Midwest, it cleans up in competition. At a recent comp, Stan H. commented something to the effect of "Excellent beer, the brewers at Boulevard would be happy to know that this is how their beers are being used." It placed first at the KC NHC Regional over 68 entries in Belgian & French.

It got a 30 in Philly. It averages a 40.3 in the comps it's been to here in the Midwest.

Perhaps it's a combination of shipping times/heat, regional knowledge and a bit of voodoo? FWIW, I judged at the 2012 finals and was surprised at the lack of really great beer as well.

I wonder if a more detailed description would help your beer fare better in areas where they do not know the joy of Saison-Brett as we do. I can't imagine a couple weeks of warm transport would destroy a brett beer.

hard to give much more information when limited to 50 characters of specialty information.  Just sayin'

Offline Siamese Moose

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #272 on: July 08, 2013, 09:13:42 AM »
It seems like the issue with ass hot transport of beer would be easily remedied by moving the NHC to start judging in the late winter with the conference in the spring.
Having been deeply involved with the conference for a while (Chair of the local committee in 2008, on the AHA Conference Committee since), I can say for certain that there is no way the conference can be held during the school year. FWIW, I ship my entries insulated with gel packs.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #273 on: July 08, 2013, 09:41:06 AM »
Having judged the final round in Philly the other week, we scored the entries in the 30+ range. Out of the 11 Strong Ales we judged, there were three that were 35+. Not a bad showing for the final round. It will be interesting to see the breakdown of all entries.

I've recently joined the AHA GC competition subcommittee, and plan to work with the team to address the issues at hand. Looking forward to it. One of our tasks is to get some feedback from a survey, then digest the results for future planning/enhancement.
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Online AmandaK

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #274 on: July 08, 2013, 10:18:47 AM »
I wonder if a more detailed description would help your beer fare better in areas where they do not know the joy of Saison-Brett as we do. I can't imagine a couple weeks of warm transport would destroy a brett beer.

hard to give much more information when limited to 50 characters of specialty information.  Just sayin'

I think that description is 47-48 characters long. It's okay though, I'm happy with the beer and now I can just hoard the last 12-18 bottles to myself. :)
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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #275 on: July 08, 2013, 10:50:54 AM »
I would really like to see some data on NHCs winning entries versus distance from the competition. I think I could spin this info out of the winner's pages, but it would take some time.

Well, I did this and proved myself wrong.  ::)

I took the 2013 NHC winners, arranged them by state (for time's sake), and assigned each place a value (1st place = 5pts, 2nd = 3pts, 3rd = 1pt). I then took the state and googled "distance from philly to 'x' state" and input the distance.

Looking at the very simplistic -and truncated- data set:
State/Pts/Miles Away
CA   46   2834
MN   21   1324
WA   21   2750
MI   17   788
PA   17   1
TX   14   1687
OH   13   505
VA   11   323
CO   10   1794
NY   9   96
AZ   8   2266
IL   7   842
NM   7   1906


In the top three states, two are from clear across the country. The other is from the middle of the country. Clearly, shipping across the country is not the issue here.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #276 on: July 08, 2013, 12:02:22 PM »
I would really like to see some data on NHCs winning entries versus distance from the competition. I think I could spin this info out of the winner's pages, but it would take some time.

Well, I did this and proved myself wrong.  ::)

I took the 2013 NHC winners, arranged them by state (for time's sake), and assigned each place a value (1st place = 5pts, 2nd = 3pts, 3rd = 1pt). I then took the state and googled "distance from philly to 'x' state" and input the distance.

Looking at the very simplistic -and truncated- data set:
State/Pts/Miles Away
CA   46   2834
MN   21   1324
WA   21   2750
MI   17   788
PA   17   1
TX   14   1687
OH   13   505
VA   11   323
CO   10   1794
NY   9   96
AZ   8   2266
IL   7   842
NM   7   1906


In the top three states, two are from clear across the country. The other is from the middle of the country. Clearly, shipping across the country is not the issue here.
MI had 1 point in San Diego and one point in Seattle. How did CA do in San Diego?

I might have to dig out some old Zymurgys.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #277 on: July 08, 2013, 12:51:01 PM »
Found past winners on line.

2012 Seattle, CA = 36
2011 SD, CA = 48
2010 Minneapolis.  CA  = 62
2009 Oakland. CA = 39
2008 Cincinnati. CA = 35
2007 Denver. CA = 48

I want to look at Michigan next.
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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #278 on: July 08, 2013, 01:12:50 PM »
Found past winners on line.

2012 Seattle, CA = 36
2011 SD, CA = 48
2010 Minneapolis.  CA  = 62
2009 Oakland. CA = 39
2008 Cincinnati. CA = 35
2007 Denver. CA = 48

I want to look at Michigan next.

The right way to do this would be by percentage since it's pretty obvious that CA skews the results due to high numbers. But I don't think we have those numbers.
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Online morticaixavier

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #279 on: July 08, 2013, 01:18:58 PM »
Found past winners on line.

2012 Seattle, CA = 36
2011 SD, CA = 48
2010 Minneapolis.  CA  = 62
2009 Oakland. CA = 39
2008 Cincinnati. CA = 35
2007 Denver. CA = 48

I want to look at Michigan next.

The right way to do this would be by percentage since it's pretty obvious that CA skews the results due to high numbers. But I don't think we have those numbers.

At least for the later comps you could start by simply dividing CA numbers by 2 as we are the only state (I think) that has two first round sites thus allowing us to potentially advance twice as many beers. (Assuming that the entry site correlates with the home state of the entrant)
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #280 on: July 08, 2013, 01:24:23 PM »
Found past winners on line.

2012 Seattle, CA = 36
2011 SD, CA = 48
2010 Minneapolis.  CA  = 62
2009 Oakland. CA = 39
2008 Cincinnati. CA = 35
2007 Denver. CA = 48

I want to look at Michigan next.

The right way to do this would be by percentage since it's pretty obvious that CA skews the results due to high numbers. But I don't think we have those numbers.
Right. Some of those years would have a Jamil Z. effect. Quaff and Doze do well too.

MI over the years.

2013 Philly = 17
2012 Seattle = 1
2011 San Diego = 1
2010 Minneapolis =11
2009 Oakland = 14
2008 Cincinnati = 9
2007 Denver  = 24
2006 Orlando = 10
2005 Baltimore  = 5
2004 Las Vegas = 9
2003 Chicago = 23

Maybe some influence in that due to distance? Cincinnati was low, Denver and Oakland high.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 01:27:08 PM by hopfenundmalz »
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #281 on: July 08, 2013, 06:43:14 PM »
because who doesn't like more stats:

which region did 23 categories of beer medals and points (6/4/2) come from?

New York:       10 medals, 36 pts
Northern Cal:    8 medals, 36 pts
Tulsa:              7 medals, 28 pts
Ohio:               7 medals, 28 pts
Minnesota:       7 medals, 28 pts
Southern Cal:   6 medals, 22 pts
Milwaukee:       6 medals, 18 pts
Seattle:            5 medals, 22 pts
Denver:            5 medals, 16 pts
Atlanta:            4 medals, 20 pts
Kansas City      3 medals, 16 pts

mostly well distributed, and of course people shipped all over the place.  I don't think I could make any statements about what the numbers mean other than the fairly obvious:  any shipping is worse than local drop-off for the Final Round.  Would we see the most local region near the top of this list most years?  Seems likely, but what do I know.

if anyone adds those up and notices only 68 medals, I cannot find the Cat 18 Gold winner on any regional lists.  If that is an administrative advance beer that is awesome for him, though it does illustrate the need for further improvement to the competition.

cheers--
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #282 on: July 08, 2013, 07:12:55 PM »
because who doesn't like more stats:

which region did 23 categories of beer medals and points (6/4/2) come from?

New York:       10 medals, 36 pts
Northern Cal:    8 medals, 36 pts
Tulsa:              7 medals, 28 pts
Ohio:               7 medals, 28 pts
Minnesota:       7 medals, 28 pts
Southern Cal:   6 medals, 22 pts
Milwaukee:       6 medals, 18 pts
Seattle:            5 medals, 22 pts
Denver:            5 medals, 16 pts
Atlanta:            4 medals, 20 pts
Kansas City      3 medals, 16 pts

mostly well distributed, and of course people shipped all over the place.  I don't think I could make any statements about what the numbers mean other than the fairly obvious:  any shipping is worse than local drop-off for the Final Round.  Would we see the most local region near the top of this list most years?  Seems likely, but what do I know.

if anyone adds those up and notices only 68 medals, I cannot find the Cat 18 Gold winner on any regional lists.  If that is an administrative advance beer that is awesome for him, though it does illustrate the need for further improvement to the competition.

cheers--
--Michael
That is a good analysis.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #283 on: July 09, 2013, 09:36:54 AM »
because who doesn't like more stats:

which region did 23 categories of beer medals and points (6/4/2) come from?

New York:       10 medals, 36 pts
Northern Cal:    8 medals, 36 pts
Tulsa:              7 medals, 28 pts
Ohio:               7 medals, 28 pts
Minnesota:       7 medals, 28 pts
Southern Cal:   6 medals, 22 pts
Milwaukee:       6 medals, 18 pts
Seattle:            5 medals, 22 pts
Denver:            5 medals, 16 pts
Atlanta:            4 medals, 20 pts
Kansas City      3 medals, 16 pts

mostly well distributed, and of course people shipped all over the place.  I don't think I could make any statements about what the numbers mean other than the fairly obvious:  any shipping is worse than local drop-off for the Final Round.  Would we see the most local region near the top of this list most years?  Seems likely, but what do I know.

if anyone adds those up and notices only 68 medals, I cannot find the Cat 18 Gold winner on any regional lists.  If that is an administrative advance beer that is awesome for him, though it does illustrate the need for further improvement to the competition.

cheers--
--Michael
That is a good analysis.

+1

Nice summary
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Offline macbrews

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #284 on: July 09, 2013, 10:20:26 AM »
Out of curiosity, when (or where if they already have) do they post the Club of the Year scores?

Mac