Author Topic: hochkurz mash  (Read 2108 times)

Offline wort-h.o.g.

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hochkurz mash
« on: March 02, 2013, 07:05:09 AM »
so i decided to do a hockhurz infusion mash on my boston pale ale. first infusion was fine and hit 145F. when i got to the second intermediate infusion targeted at 150F, the strike water did not get me to desired temp. decided to switch to decoction and pulled several quarts and heated, then returned to mash and hit 150F. did the same to hit next rest of 158F - decoction temp was right on.

learned today the decoction isn't that more consuming than infusion, and it i was able to hit my next step temp with ease vs. the infusion.

Offline davidgzach

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Re: hochkurz mash
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2013, 07:20:03 AM »
so i decided to do a hockhurz infusion mash on my boston pale ale. first infusion was fine and hit 145F. when i got to the second intermediate infusion targeted at 150F, the strike water did not get me to desired temp. decided to switch to decoction and pulled several quarts and heated, then returned to mash and hit 150F. did the same to hit next rest of 158F - decoction temp was right on.

learned today the decoction isn't that more consuming than infusion, and it i was able to hit my next step temp with ease vs. the infusion.

Decoction mashing is not all that hard once you get the hang of it.  I'm glad you worked it out.  Did you boil the decoction?  For how long?

Dave
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Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: hochkurz mash
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2013, 07:48:00 AM »
so i decided to do a hockhurz infusion mash on my boston pale ale. first infusion was fine and hit 145F. when i got to the second intermediate infusion targeted at 150F, the strike water did not get me to desired temp. decided to switch to decoction and pulled several quarts and heated, then returned to mash and hit 150F. did the same to hit next rest of 158F - decoction temp was right on.

learned today the decoction isn't that more consuming than infusion, and it i was able to hit my next step temp with ease vs. the infusion.

Decoction mashing is not all that hard once you get the hang of it.  I'm glad you worked it out.  Did you boil the decoction?  For how long?

boiled about 10-15 minutes

Dave

Offline davidgzach

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Re: hochkurz mash
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2013, 08:41:32 AM »
Nice!
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Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: hochkurz mash
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2013, 08:56:47 AM »
Nice!

hit all time high mash efficiency today..91%! PH into kettle was 5.5, right on target.

Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: hochkurz mash
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2013, 09:46:41 AM »
Nice!

hit all time high mash efficiency today..91%! PH into kettle was 5.5, right on target.

for those performing hochkurz mash...did you experience any gains in mash efficiency? since its the only variable i changed for this recipe, is it reasonable to presume the mash change from single infusion bumped me up from 86% to 91%?

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: hochkurz mash
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2013, 09:49:02 AM »
Decoction can boost efficiency because more starch is gelatanized (sp?) during the boil stage so conversion efficiency is higher. Longer overall mash times will also increase conversion and possible overall efficiency.

Did you do anything to control your mash pH that you don't normally do? that can also boost efficiency.
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Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: hochkurz mash
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2013, 09:50:39 AM »
Decoction can boost efficiency because more starch is gelatanized (sp?) during the boil stage so conversion efficiency is higher. Longer overall mash times will also increase conversion and possible overall efficiency.

Did you do anything to control your mash pH that you don't normally do? that can also boost efficiency.

nothing different for PH control..just normal brewing salt additions to target my desired PH of 5.4-5.5.

Online Kaiser

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Re: hochkurz mash
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2013, 10:13:43 AM »
There are 2 parts that are beneficial for efficiency:

(1) - boiling the grain
(2) - higher temperature mash rest

I commonly let the high temperature rest (~72 C) sit or 30-60 min.

Kai

Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: hochkurz mash
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2013, 10:50:27 AM »
There are 2 parts that are beneficial for efficiency:

(1) - boiling the grain
(2) - higher temperature mash rest

I commonly let the high temperature rest (~72 C) sit or 30-60 min.

Kai

that makes sense. my typical mash for this recipe would be infusion at 1.5qts per pound, and rest for 75 minutes at 152F, then mash out with about 6qts of about 195F water. then batch sparge with strike water raising grist to about 168F.

i did the hochkurz with the first rest at 145F for 30 minutes,intermediate rest at 150F for 20 minutes, then raised to 158F for 45 minutes, and mash out. then did  my batch sparge with strike water raising grist to 168F.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: hochkurz mash
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2013, 07:12:23 PM »
I've only done decoctions when I missed my mash temperature, so when are you pulling the decoctions to add them back to the main mash for the full rest times?  Or do you ignore the time it takes to get the decoctions up to temp?
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Offline dannyjed

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Re: hochkurz mash
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2013, 08:32:18 PM »
I recently did a hochkurz decoction mash for a Doppelbock and I hit all of my temps dead on.  I didn't see any increase in efficiency, but I really liked this decoction method and I plan on using it for all my future lagers.
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Offline yugamrap

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Re: hochkurz mash
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2013, 07:15:39 AM »
I've only done decoctions when I missed my mash temperature, so when are you pulling the decoctions to add them back to the main mash for the full rest times?  Or do you ignore the time it takes to get the decoctions up to temp?

Check Kai's discussion of decoction mashing here http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Decoction_Mashing and watch the videos, too.  I've played around with a few different decoction schedules through the years, and use different schedules for different styles.  I've always seen a little bump in efficiency except when using only a single decoction to reach mashout temp.
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Offline malzig

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Re: hochkurz mash
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2013, 10:07:42 AM »
I recently did a hochkurz decoction mash for a Doppelbock and I hit all of my temps dead on.  I didn't see any increase in efficiency, but I really liked this decoction method and I plan on using it for all my future lagers.
Any benefit of a Hochkurz or decoction on efficiency is going to be by improving your conversion rate, so it depends on what your conversion efficiency is already.  Brewers that are already getting near 100% conversion can't get a higher mash efficiency from techniques like these because there is no room for improvement.  It's the brewers that usually see something like 70% efficiency that can see an efficiency increase.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 06:39:20 PM by malzig »

Offline dannyjed

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Re: hochkurz mash
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2013, 02:43:09 PM »
I recently did a hochkurz decoction mash for a Doppelbock and I hit all of my temps dead on.  I didn't see any increase in efficiency, but I really liked this decoction method and I plan on using it for all my future lagers.
Any benefit of a Hochkurz or decoction on efficiency is going to be by improving your conversion rate, so it depends on what your conversion efficiency is already.  Brewers that are already getting near 100% conversion can't get a higher mash efficiency from technique like these because there is no room for improvement.  It's the brewers that usually see something like 70% efficiency that can see an efficiency increase.
That makes sense.
Dan Chisholm