Author Topic: protein rest..why, why not, and when....myth buster out there???  (Read 2364 times)

Offline wort-h.o.g.

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curious about peoples opinions on a protein rest..when they do one, why, and why they choose not to.

ive got my thoughts, but i'm always perplexed as to why many brewing stores stick in "must do a protein rest " for certain grains they sell, seemingly without consideration to what recipe or beer profile is being used.

i'm not sure why you would ever do a protein rest for modified wheat malt in an hefeweizen for instance - would you?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 01:20:13 PM by wort-h.o.g. »

Offline beersk

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Re: protein rest..why, why not, and when
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2013, 12:13:48 PM »
I have been wondering the same thing.
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Re: protein rest..why, why not, and when
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2013, 12:31:18 PM »
I agree.  I have an APA on tap right now that I used Rahr 2-row as the base malt. My LHBS, an otherwise great shop, recommends a protein rest on this malt for clarity.  I used only Whirlfloc as a fining, and you could read a newspaper through it. I did no protein rest.  With modern malts being so highly modified, I do single infusion on everything, with the occasional decoction here and there, and love my results.
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Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: protein rest..why, why not, and when
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 12:32:30 PM »
I agree.  I have an APA on tap right now that I used Rahr 2-row as the base malt. My LHBS, an otherwise great shop, recommends a protein rest on this malt for clarity.  I used only Whirlfloc as a fining, and you could read a newspaper through it. I did no protein rest.  With modern malts being so highly modified, I do single infusion on everything, with the occasional decoction here and there, and love my results.

I understand the aspect related to beta-glucanases/cytases -  used to break up the beta glucans in unmalted wheat, rye, oatmeal and unmalted barley.  rest the mash at 98 -113°F for 20 minutes to break down the gums without affecting the proteins responsible for head retention and body. i understand the use of this rest is only required for "brewers using a large amount (>25%) of unmalted or flaked wheat, rye or oatmeal in the mash". but most protein rests are described to perform the rest at 120-130F for 20 minutes - and that's going to help with clarity (chill haze) but also impact head retention and body as i understand it. seems like new brewers would be highly confused by this and inadvertently end up with a disappointing beer in many cases.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 12:44:04 PM by wort-h.o.g. »

Offline denny

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Re: protein rest..why, why not, and when
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 12:37:36 PM »
AFAIC, 99% of the time it's a leftover from the past when grains weren't as highly modified.  According to John Palmer's article in the January 2003 issue of Zymurgy, anyhting wiht a Kolbach of 40 or more doesn't need a protein rest.  It's darn hard to find a malt under 40 these days.
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Offline dean_palmer

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Re: protein rest..why, why not, and when
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2013, 12:41:18 PM »
Quote from "How to Brew" ...when using fully modified malts with a large proportion (>25%) of unmalted grain, e.g. flaked barley, wheat, rye, or oatmeal. Using this rest in a mash consisting mainly of fully modified malts would break up the proteins responsible for body and head retention and result in a thin, watery beer.

I cut out the part discussing the usual moderately modified malts as we know that already. If you have other things in the mash that can benefit fro the rest that's good, but if that is not the case, and you are using standard modern malts, it just doesn't make sense, and as above, may work to make your beer thin and watery. Depends on what you are shooting for :-)

Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: protein rest..why, why not, and when
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2013, 12:47:07 PM »
makes you want to write all these suppliers and tell them to stop writing that...disservice to new brewers. i can remember when i first started, i would avoid any thing that had "protein rest required", only because i was new and wasn't sure i could pull it off or not.

Offline tom

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Re: protein rest..why, why not, and when
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 12:47:30 PM »
Has anyone who does a protein rest ever made a thin, watery beer?
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Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: protein rest..why, why not, and when
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2013, 12:52:04 PM »
Has anyone who does a protein rest ever made a thin, watery beer?

i know, right??? i think it would be more appropriate to say it may not provide the body that your beer profile or recipe intends for. i dont know if a protein rest for a light bodied pilsner would make any difference or not, but i wonder if a protein rest on a full bodied hefeweizen or other beer would impact it negatively...ive just never done a protein rest because i couldn't see why i would want to do it.

Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: protein rest..why, why not, and when
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2013, 01:00:23 PM »
i'm thinking one of you "senior brewers" out there should write and publish a modern day manifesto on protein rests, and set the brewing world straight -  giving the new generation of brewers crystal clarity  ;D


at the very least, hopefully many of the AHA members will chime in with their thoughts and experiences..for future reference.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 01:16:25 PM by wort-h.o.g. »

Offline denny

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Re: protein rest..why, why not, and when
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2013, 01:20:24 PM »
Has anyone who does a protein rest ever made a thin, watery beer?

I did early on in my brewing.  Making an PseudOfest with GW Munich.  Did a 30 min. rest at 120.  The beer had no head and the body was like water.
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Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: protein rest..why, why not, and when
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2013, 01:22:23 PM »
Has anyone who does a protein rest ever made a thin, watery beer?

I did early on in my brewing.  Making an PseudOfest with GW Munich.  Did a 30 min. rest at 120.  The beer had no head and the body was like water.

Denny- any circumstances where you would / have perform[ed] a rest?

Offline kramerog

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Re: protein rest..why, why not, and when....myth buster out there???
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2013, 01:44:12 PM »
I've heard that Briess Pilsener and possibly another Briess malt are the only not well modified base malts. 
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Offline denny

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Re: protein rest..why, why not, and when
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2013, 01:49:53 PM »
Denny- any circumstances where you would / have perform[ed] a rest?

If I was making a beer with a LOT of wheat, I might do one.  But since I don't care for wheat beers, it's hard to say!  I've made a couple wits and didn't do a p rest.  A lot of people seem to do a p rest to aid lautering, but I've never had a stuck runoff so personally I don't see the need.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: protein rest..why, why not, and when
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2013, 02:32:09 PM »
Has anyone who does a protein rest ever made a thin, watery beer?

I did early on in my brewing.  Making an PseudOfest with GW Munich.  Did a 30 min. rest at 120.  The beer had no head and the body was like water.

I had the same experience with my Vienna lager a couple years ago.  Vowed to never use a protein rest ever again.
Dave

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