Author Topic: Quick souring method  (Read 2663 times)

Offline drjones

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Re: Quick souring method
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2013, 12:35:15 PM »
So Kramerog, my 7-day old unhopped ale has a nice light flavor - not very tart, but not sweet at all (mashed at about 150, so probably not many nonfermantables to start with).  I think I'll let it settle out another 7 days then go ahead and bottle, assuming it stays free of an unwanted infection.  I first considered bottling without any priming sugar to see what would happen, but based on your experience it sounds like I should go ahead and bottle condition normally.  What would you recommend based on your experience? And assuming there is some lacto in there, how much additional CO2 pressure is likely to develop?  I'm just trying to avoid unwanted bottle bombs.  Again, at 7 days there is not much notable sourness, so the grain may simply have been pretty clean, and because I pitched the yeast right from the beginning, maybe the bugs never had much of a chance to compete for the sugars.

Also, thanks for adding the link - I had this through a different source.  Hopefully others will check that out.
- Brian
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Fermenting: dry stout, 60 schilling, 70 schilling
Bottled: west-coast IPA, dry mead, cider, Cascadian Dark Ale, wild-hopped blonde

Online kramerog

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Re: Quick souring method
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2013, 01:20:41 PM »
Drjones, did you add any bug cultures to your beer or did the bugs just come from the grain?
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Offline drjones

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Re: Quick souring method
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2013, 03:22:19 PM »
No cultures added.  Tried to get them started the natural way from the fresh wort.  This is basically an experiment to produce a traditional unhopped ale.  They are said to have had a short shelf life, so I assume they either became too sour or just staled rapidly.  I suspect my carboy is a lot cleaner than a 14th century barrel, so it may be hard to reproduce without adding a culture.  However, these ales are never specifically described as sour.  It just seemed the brewing process was very close to making a Berliner Weiss with the no boil method, so I gave it a try. 
- Brian
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Fermenting: dry stout, 60 schilling, 70 schilling
Bottled: west-coast IPA, dry mead, cider, Cascadian Dark Ale, wild-hopped blonde

Online kramerog

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Re: Quick souring method
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2013, 05:44:59 PM »
My experience with no-boil used a lacto culture.  One I was told that malt is much cleaner than in the past, plus the original malt in Berliner Weiss may have been air dred rather than kilned.  Second, most lacto cultures available to homebrewers eat simple sugars only so they don't become gushers.

I suggest if you can't keg, bottling like normal, keeping it somewhere cool, and drinking regularly. 

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Offline drjones

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Re: Quick souring method
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2013, 06:19:26 PM »
Thanks, kramerog  This experiment does make me suspect that the  Crisp ale malt must have been pretty clean.  Of course who knows about the next sack.  Jamil would certainly disapprove of the lack of control, but that's the fun of experimenting in this case.  I think I've learned something with this exceptionally ordinary little ale.  By all the broken rules of brewing, this batch has to be infected with something - I actually hope!  I can't help but expect that in the days of unhopped ales, it was the bugs that added the balancing zest.
- Brian
------------------------------------------
Fermenting: dry stout, 60 schilling, 70 schilling
Bottled: west-coast IPA, dry mead, cider, Cascadian Dark Ale, wild-hopped blonde

Offline drjones

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Re: Quick souring method
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2013, 09:47:15 AM »
Edvin - how's that sour beer doing?  I did not mean to hijack your thread! 
- Brian
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Fermenting: dry stout, 60 schilling, 70 schilling
Bottled: west-coast IPA, dry mead, cider, Cascadian Dark Ale, wild-hopped blonde

Online mtnrockhopper

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Re: Quick souring method
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2013, 05:44:30 AM »
Thanks, kramerog  This experiment does make me suspect that the  Crisp ale malt must have been pretty clean.  Of course who knows about the next sack.  Jamil would certainly disapprove of the lack of control, but that's the fun of experimenting in this case.  I think I've learned something with this exceptionally ordinary little ale.  By all the broken rules of brewing, this batch has to be infected with something - I actually hope!  I can't help but expect that in the days of unhopped ales, it was the bugs that added the balancing zest.
145F for 30 minutes is pasteurization temp, as is 161F for 15 seconds, so I'd expect most of the lacto to die during a mash. I've had many quite sour berliner weisses made using lacto cultured from grain, but the innoculating grain is added after sparging the wort and cooling it to ~100F.
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Offline drjones

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Re: Quick souring method
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2013, 01:51:42 PM »
Thanks, rockhopper.  That makes sense.  I was going to bottle this yesterday, but fermentation kicked back in and the ale clouded.  Has a new funky odor. But still tastes fine.  A bit spritzy, but not sour.  I'd rather it cleared up again before bottling, but I'm not sur how much longer it has before it just spoils.
I could not pin down the aroma, but my wife says "sourdough cheese sandwich" so something kind of interesting is going on.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 04:58:57 PM by drjones »
- Brian
------------------------------------------
Fermenting: dry stout, 60 schilling, 70 schilling
Bottled: west-coast IPA, dry mead, cider, Cascadian Dark Ale, wild-hopped blonde

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Re: Quick souring method
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2013, 05:26:47 AM »
Short Round: Okey dokey, Dr. Jones.
 
Sourdough cheese sandwich huh? I wonder how this will turn out.
Jimmy K

Delmarva United Homebrewers - President by inverse coup when the old president ousted himself.
AHA Member since 2006
BJCP: B0958

Offline drjones

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Re: Quick souring method
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2013, 10:02:33 AM »
It is truly a strange brew.  I've tried to reproduce something like a 14th or 15th century London ale based on some reading.  I have no idea if this is even close, and the result is certainly not what anyone today would consider a good beer.  They may not call it beer at all!  However, if I put aside my assumptions, the result is a refreshing, light beverage (3% alcohol), and I can see that people would have enjoyed it in the days before hops became accepted. 
- Brian
------------------------------------------
Fermenting: dry stout, 60 schilling, 70 schilling
Bottled: west-coast IPA, dry mead, cider, Cascadian Dark Ale, wild-hopped blonde