[tschmidlin]

Nothing really, you're at the mercy of the extract.

Although when I put 7 lbs of wheat LME (8 SRM) in to beersmith I get 6.9 SRM for a 5 gallon batch.  That is within the 2-8 SRM range for a weizen, which is what you are making if you are using wheat extract, hallertauer, and 3068.

[btrammel]

I believe the honey malt is what would be bringing my color up into the red.  What about adding half of the extract toward the end of the boil?  Would that help the color?

[tschmidlin]

Oops, missed the honey malt.  Still, 4 oz of 25 SRM honey malt only gets me to 7.4 SRM for the beer, still under 8 SRM for the style.

Adding some of the extract late will definitely keep the actual color down, I would recommend if you are doing a partial boil.  You can do it even if you are doing a full wort boil, it's up to you.

Also, there seems to be some discrepancy - 7 lbs of wheat LME + 4 oz honey malt for a 5 gallon batch gets me to an OG of 1.052, near the upper limit for weizen, not middle of the road as you describe.  Where are we differing?

[btrammel]

first tschmidlin - i want to say thanks again for taking the time to help me.

our discrepancy may be this: i have "american wheat or rye beer" as the style.  you have "weizen", correct?  my guess is that i'm off on this - i was going for a banana wheat, but does my recipe reflect that of a weizen instead?

[denny]

first tschmidlin - i want to say thanks again for taking the time to help me.

our discrepancy may be this: i have "american wheat or rye beer" as the style.  you have "weizen", correct?  my guess is that i'm off on this - i was going for a banana wheat, but does my recipe reflect that of a weizen instead?

The yeast you have listed pretty much defines it as a weizen.  For an American wheat you'd use s neutral yeast like 1056.

[btrammel]

thank you denny.  i chose this yeast because it gives off heavy banana esters, i read.  should i now refer to the beer as a weizen, simply because of the yeast choice?  i'm still very new to this so i appreciate the help/knowledge.

also - is there a "wheat" yeast that gives off heavy banana esters?

[denny]

thank you denny.  i chose this yeast because it gives off heavy banana esters, i read.  should i now refer to the beer as a weizen, simply because of the yeast choice?  i'm still very new to this so i appreciate the help/knowledge.

also - is there a "wheat" yeast that gives off heavy banana esters?

Technically, a weizen yeast IS a wheat yeast.  The abominations that American brewers call wheat beers (calm down, that's just my opinion) have nothing to do with their German origins and use a neutral yeast that adds no flavor to the beer.  For info about styles, take a look at http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/catdex.php .

[btrammel]

awesome - thanks again, denny!

[btrammel]

I've switched this style from an "American Wheat" to a "Weizen" in BeerSmith - numbers come in much better!  I've bumped this up to all wheat LME and my color is in the yellow, meaning I may save 1/4 of the LME to add toward end of boil.  I've also cut the hops addition to 1 oz as opposed to 2, keeping it low-middle IBUs.  I'm also going to throw 1/4 lb of honey in at flame out for taste.  Everything else remains the same!

DRUNKEY MONKEY
7 lb - Wheat LME
4 oz - Honey Malt (steeped)
1 oz - Hallertauer hops (60 min)
1/4 lb - Honey (flame out)
Wyeast #3068
**Adding mashed bananas to secondary ONLY if needed

Primary: 10 days (high 60s, low 70s)
Secondary: 10 days
Bottles: 20 days (room temp)

Does this look okay now?

[cornershot]

All great advise. But it's your 3rd batch, dude! And you're 1st recipe! A glorious banana wheat with spices and orange peels! And now you're making a weizen. Don't get me wrong, a well-brewed weizen is a treat. But it's you're 3rd batch! Why get so hung up on srm and style guidelines? Brew drunkey monkey! Have fun! It just might be great! RDWHAHB! Good luck!
Btw dried, unsulphured bananas might be better.

[klickitat jim]

I flip flopped around not long ago. It appears to me that the style guidelines are like a dictionary for brewing. There's no law against experimenting but using the wrong words is confusing. I guess what I'm saying is brew away. But I am new too and recently began to appreciate the value of the dreaded rules. Lol
I bought brewing classic styles and plan to brew their tried and true recipe first, whenever I venture into new territory. Then I can tweak from there once I speak the language of that particular style.

"Freedom is temporary unless you are also Brave!" - Patriot

[garc_mall]

This is how I see recipe formulation and styles. I like to imagine what I want to taste in my head first. Then I look at the simplest way to make that beer. Once I make it the first time, I can add increasing complexity of additions, because I already know where I am starting. As you get further into recipe formulation, you will know what things do naturally, but when you are starting out, I am a big fan of the simpler = better method.

For example, if I were trying to make a beer similar to yours, this is how I would approach it.

I want a beer that has the following flavors: Banana, cinnamon, vanilla, honey.

Ways I can do that: 3068 (Banana, Clove)
Add bananas
Add vanilla
add honey malt
add honey (backsweeten), (only with a keg).

If I were making this, I would just use 3068 to start. When the beer is finished fermenting, I would then diagnose how it tastes, and where it differs from what I had imagined. There are some things you can do to the beer post ferment. You an add tinctures, possibly add more fermentables (bananas). Other things you have to wait until the next batch.

Good luck.

[btrammel]

all of you guys rock and i truly appreciate the insight/knowledge/advice.  i'm going to give this a go in the next couple of weeks.  i will keep the board posted!

thanks again.

[morticaixavier]

Just one more note.

I like to taste a few examples of the style or beer I am thinking of brewing. With the beer market like it is you can almost always find an example of very nearly exactly what you are planning to taste.

In this case I would (I can't beleive I am going to say this) try the Will's Banana bread beer first. And have your wife try it to. This is a beer with Banana in it. then get a Sierra Nevada kellerweiss this is a beer with banana esters from yeast. Which one are you trying to get?