Author Topic: build water from distilled  (Read 4106 times)

Offline dzlater

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Re: build water from distilled
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2013, 03:04:24 AM »



Isn't all that in the instructions?
Guess I should read those huh?  ;)
Dan S. from NJ

Offline jklinck

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Re: build water from distilled
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2013, 05:56:17 AM »
I recently listened to an old podcast from Basic Brewing Radio and they did an experiment using water built from R.O. specifically for stouts (dark beers) and one specifically for pale ales (light colored beers). They also brewed the pale ale with the stout water and vice versa. The results were that these beers didn't taste nearly as good when they were brewed with the wrong water.

My question is,  where can I go to find help building a water from R.O. for a particular type of beer?
Are there published standard formulas for water additions for each style of beer?

As far as I'm concerned trying to target water profiles is a waste of time. First you want to dial in your mash pH(Bru'n water, Bru'n water, did I mention this thing called Bru'n water), then use gypsum/calcium sulfate (CaSO4) for a hoppy beer, calcium chloride (CaCL) for a malty beer and half and half for a beer in the middle. That's all you need. The rest is a waste of time. And this is coming from one of the most analytic, detail oriented brewers you will ever meet. 

For dark beers I do the Gordon thing, mash the lighter colored malts (base malts, crystal malts, victory, biscuit, etc.) and throw the dark/roasted malts into the sparge water (or steep them) so they don't screw with your mash pH. 
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Offline beergutbrew

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Re: build water from distilled
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2015, 07:57:10 AM »
I am sure I am over simplifying this, but what I don't understand
I look at the water profile adjustment tab in Bru'n Water
Select 100% R/O water.
Set the "Desired Water Profile" as Burton
Then I am supposed to input different mineral additions to hit that profile?
I am sure someone has done this already?
So just tell me what to add to hit that profile?

Did you come up with a solution? I'm with you. I just want a starting point for each style I want to brew and adjust from there. Pale Ale add these salts  Stout add these salts   Brown Ale add these salts. I think Northern Brewer or More Beer is starting to add salt additions in orders as an add on and they are based on the style of beer you are ordering. It would be great to go to a homebrew shop and say I'm brewing a heady topper clone, give me the salt addition pack for a 5 gallon batch. Or I'm brewing a sweet stout,.....

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: build water from distilled
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2015, 07:28:05 AM »
I am sure I am over simplifying this, but what I don't understand
I look at the water profile adjustment tab in Bru'n Water
Select 100% R/O water.
Set the "Desired Water Profile" as Burton
Then I am supposed to input different mineral additions to hit that profile?
I am sure someone has done this already?
So just tell me what to add to hit that profile?

Did you come up with a solution? I'm with you. I just want a starting point for each style I want to brew and adjust from there. Pale Ale add these salts  Stout add these salts   Brown Ale add these salts. I think Northern Brewer or More Beer is starting to add salt additions in orders as an add on and they are based on the style of beer you are ordering. It would be great to go to a homebrew shop and say I'm brewing a heady topper clone, give me the salt addition pack for a 5 gallon batch. Or I'm brewing a sweet stout,.....

the problem being that what I think it right on for a particular beer may not be to  your taste. If you just toss in  a little packet of salts you will never develop the understanding to troubleshoot and adapt recipes. If that's okay with you than great. I see a lot of recipes that include specific salt additions but not everyone starts with distilled or RO. often times they are working from a different base. even then, the RO you use and the RO I use are not exactly the same. distilled is going to vary a lot less but RO is still a reflection of the source water.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: build water from distilled
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2015, 11:35:21 AM »
My LHBS sells a packet of "Burtonizing Salts".  Will it be equal to Burton on Trent water?  Not likely, unless the starting point is the same.  The LHBS uses its local water profile, but the town that is a couple towns over has notoriously bad brewing water and the next town over has remarkably good brewing water to start with for most recipes (a small Belgian style microbrewery located there for this reason).  I brew with RO as a starting point. 

We are all assuming an all grain approach, also, because extract already has the minerals in it that were present in the water used to make it.

I agree with most comments above.  If you guys are looking for a silver bullet of salts, there is none (despite a product that is sold to get your pH to be 5.2 "spot on" regardless of starting point.)  Thankfully, the grain does most of the work here and the additions that are suggested are typically very minimal amounts (in the single digit gram level of weight for most of additions of salts and acids/alkalines for the beers I brew - and that is a ten gallon batch!)

Don't fall victim to the 1 teaspoon of CaCl for malty beers and 1 teaspoon of CaSO4 for hoppy beers.  It may be that those are correct for your water, but without knowing where you are starting, there is no way to predict where you will end up. 

Martin has an advanced degree for a reason.  The stuff just isn't that simple.
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Online 69franx

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Re: build water from distilled
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2015, 08:13:48 AM »
As everyone has already stated, differences in the grain bill will necessitate differences in salt additions to get the profile you want in the pH range you want. The second factor that makes it tough to generalize additions is water volumes. The strike volume for mash is different for different people who may have different goals, this changes the level of buffering in your mash, requiring differing levels of additions. Same goes with sparge volumes. The necessary additions are generally equipment/system specific and grist specific. As Jonathan (I think) stated: what works for me may or may not accomplish your goals. If you know you want a pale, hoppy beer, target the pale ale profile and see what you think, and adjust in future attempts. As Martin has already suggested, less is more. You can hit profiles by adding a little of everything, but may only really need 1 or 2 additions to get there. After brewing, you can adjust for future batches based on your observations and desires. I start with RO and almost never have to add more than 8-10 grams of anything except for my IPA which gets 12 grams of gypsum plus other additions. Its frustrating to hear "try it and see what you think," but you are brewing for you. You may not like what others do for their brews but you have to try things out for yourself
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