Author Topic: simcoe, citra and amarillo  (Read 4145 times)

Offline brewmichigan

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Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2013, 12:21:57 PM »
I have to be the old cantankerous guy here, as a couple of my favorite IPAs that I brew have additions at 45, 30 or both. Clones of Pliny, Union Jack, and Headhunter. The Headhunter from Steele's IPA book is now one I am doing often (of course I had to sub Mosaic for Simcoe).

I don't think it hurts anything but I don't think it helps much either. If you are brewing an IIPA you need to have loads of flame out and dry hops. Nuf said.

Even with the 45 and 30 minute additions, Pliny does have loads at flameout and dryhop. I have not done a side by side comparison of IPAs done with 30 and 45 additions to those who haven't with everything else being equal, but they keep doing it and it must be for a reason... Right?
Mike --- Flint, Michigan

Offline majorvices

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simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2013, 08:00:59 AM »
I have no idea what they are doing. But when I talked to vinny several years ago he acted like the recipe posted online and made popular by the b3 clone wasn't what they were using "now". Heck, my understanding is that RR is using hop extracts for Pliny for bittering additions.
Keith Y.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2013, 09:03:29 AM »
I have no idea what they are doing. But when I talked to vinny several years ago he acted like the recipe posted online and made popular by the b3 clone wasn't what they were using "now". Heck, my understanding is that RR is using hop extracts for Pliny for bittering additions.
Hop extract is used to get more wort out of the kettle. The recipe he handed out at the Oakland NHC was for homebrewers, and uses 45 and 30 additions. He said on the BN a couple years back that he uses Amarillo in Pliny now.





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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2013, 09:20:33 AM »
Some brewers have said that glycosides are important to hop aroma, and since the hop compounds are bound to a sugar molecule, they survive the boil. Somewhere I read that you get good glycoside use at 30 minutes.

http://beersensoryscience.wordpress.com/2010/11/30/glycosides/
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2013, 11:46:09 AM »
I have no idea what they are doing. But when I talked to vinny several years ago he acted like the recipe posted online and made popular by the b3 clone wasn't what they were using "now". Heck, my understanding is that RR is using hop extracts for Pliny for bittering additions.
Hop extract is used to get more wort out of the kettle. The recipe he handed out at the Oakland NHC was for homebrewers, and uses 45 and 30 additions. He said on the BN a couple years back that he uses Amarillo in Pliny now.

So does anyone know where the "correct" recipe is? Or does he just add Amarillo to different points in the process?
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2013, 04:47:42 PM »
I have no idea what they are doing. But when I talked to vinny several years ago he acted like the recipe posted online and made popular by the b3 clone wasn't what they were using "now". Heck, my understanding is that RR is using hop extracts for Pliny for bittering additions.
Hop extract is used to get more wort out of the kettle. The recipe he handed out at the Oakland NHC was for homebrewers, and uses 45 and 30 additions. He said on the BN a couple years back that he uses Amarillo in Pliny now.

So does anyone know where the "correct" recipe is? Or does he just add Amarillo to different points in the process?
Amarillo is late in the boil, maybe dry hopped. Search on Homebrewtalk, I think someone has a good idea of what to do on that site.
Jeff Rankert
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Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Three

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Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2013, 05:10:52 PM »
I have no idea what they are doing. But when I talked to vinny several years ago he acted like the recipe posted online and made popular by the b3 clone wasn't what they were using "now". Heck, my understanding is that RR is using hop extracts for Pliny for bittering additions.
Hop extract is used to get more wort out of the kettle. The recipe he handed out at the Oakland NHC was for homebrewers, and uses 45 and 30 additions. He said on the BN a couple years back that he uses Amarillo in Pliny now.

So does anyone know where the "correct" recipe is? Or does he just add Amarillo to different points in the process?

Not sure how current this recipe is.......  Not really what started this thread either.......  But hey,  "Lets brew something"!!!


Pliny the Elder clone
(Russian River Brewing Co.)
(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.074  FG = 1.014
IBU = 100+  SRM = 8  ABV = 8–8.5%

Ingredients
12.2 lbs. (5.5 kg) 2-row malt
0.28 lbs. (0.13 kg) crystal malt (45 °L)
0.86 lbs. (0.39 kg) CaraPils malt
1.0 lb. (0.45 kg) dextrose(corn sugar)
19.5 AAU Chinook whole hops (mash hops)
    (1.5 oz./43 g of 13% alpha acids)
42.9 AAU Warrior hops (90 mins)
    (2.75 oz./78 g of 15.6% alpha acids)
6.1 AAU Chinook hops (90 mins)
    (0.5 oz./14 g of 12.2% alpha acids)
12 AAU Simcoe hops (45 mins)
    (1.0 oz./28 g of 12% alpha acids)
14.3 AAU Columbus hops (30 mins)
    (1.0 oz./28 g of 14.3% alpha acids)
20.5 AAU Centennial hops (0 min)
    (2.25 oz./64 g of 9.1% alpha acids)
12 AAU Simcoe hops (0 min)
    (1.0 oz./28 g of 12% alpha acids)
3.25 oz. Columbus hop (dry hop)
1.75 oz. Centennial hops (dry hop)
1.75 oz. Simcoe hops (dry hop)
1 tsp. Irish moss (15 mins)White Labs WLP001 (California Ale) yeast
0.75 cups corn sugar (for priming)
Anyone who sings a tune so sweet is passin by........

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2013, 06:48:33 PM »
I have no idea what they are doing. But when I talked to vinny several years ago he acted like the recipe posted online and made popular by the b3 clone wasn't what they were using "now". Heck, my understanding is that RR is using hop extracts for Pliny for bittering additions.
Hop extract is used to get more wort out of the kettle. The recipe he handed out at the Oakland NHC was for homebrewers, and uses 45 and 30 additions. He said on the BN a couple years back that he uses Amarillo in Pliny now.

So does anyone know where the "correct" recipe is? Or does he just add Amarillo to different points in the process?

Not sure how current this recipe is.......  Not really what started this thread either.......  But hey,  "Lets brew something"!!!


Pliny the Elder clone
(Russian River Brewing Co.)
(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.074  FG = 1.014
IBU = 100+  SRM = 8  ABV = 8–8.5%

Ingredients
12.2 lbs. (5.5 kg) 2-row malt
0.28 lbs. (0.13 kg) crystal malt (45 °L)
0.86 lbs. (0.39 kg) CaraPils malt
1.0 lb. (0.45 kg) dextrose(corn sugar)
19.5 AAU Chinook whole hops (mash hops)
    (1.5 oz./43 g of 13% alpha acids)
42.9 AAU Warrior hops (90 mins)
    (2.75 oz./78 g of 15.6% alpha acids)
6.1 AAU Chinook hops (90 mins)
    (0.5 oz./14 g of 12.2% alpha acids)
12 AAU Simcoe hops (45 mins)
    (1.0 oz./28 g of 12% alpha acids)
14.3 AAU Columbus hops (30 mins)
    (1.0 oz./28 g of 14.3% alpha acids)
20.5 AAU Centennial hops (0 min)
    (2.25 oz./64 g of 9.1% alpha acids)
12 AAU Simcoe hops (0 min)
    (1.0 oz./28 g of 12% alpha acids)
3.25 oz. Columbus hop (dry hop)
1.75 oz. Centennial hops (dry hop)
1.75 oz. Simcoe hops (dry hop)
1 tsp. Irish moss (15 mins)White Labs WLP001 (California Ale) yeast
0.75 cups corn sugar (for priming)

That is the first recipe given out, old.

More recent is this. You can also see the recipes in Zymurgy if you are an AHA member.
http://beerdujour.com/recipes/1pliny%20the%20elder%20clone%20pdf.pdf

Vinnie says Amarillo is used now. This might be close, don't know.
http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/12/ipa-clone-series-pliny-elder.html

From Russian River. http://russianriverbrewing.com/brews/pliny-the-elder/
Jeff Rankert
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Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Three

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Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2013, 07:44:19 AM »
Very nice.  Thanks for the links. http://www.bertusbrewery.com also has a Stone Ruination IPA 10 year Anniversary clone that looks awesome as well.....  http://bertusbrewery.com/2012/08/ipa-clone-series-stone-runination-10th.html

Great info.....




« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 07:46:25 AM by three »
Anyone who sings a tune so sweet is passin by........

Offline blatz

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Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2013, 08:30:27 AM »
Very nice.  Thanks for the links. http://www.bertusbrewery.com also has a Stone Ruination IPA 10 year Anniversary clone that looks awesome as well.....  http://bertusbrewery.com/2012/08/ipa-clone-series-stone-runination-10th.html

Great info.....

yeah - I've been following Scott's blog for some time now - he seems to have a great handle on cloning IPA recipes.  I've got a slightly modified version of his Blind Pig recipe in the fermentor and so far so good.

the FW UJ and Double Jack recipes look solid.
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2013, 09:53:59 AM »
Very nice.  Thanks for the links. http://www.bertusbrewery.com also has a Stone Ruination IPA 10 year Anniversary clone that looks awesome as well.....  http://bertusbrewery.com/2012/08/ipa-clone-series-stone-runination-10th.html

Great info.....

yeah - I've been following Scott's blog for some time now - he seems to have a great handle on cloning IPA recipes.  I've got a slightly modified version of his Blind Pig recipe in the fermentor and so far so good.

the FW UJ and Double Jack recipes look solid.

I've spent a lot of my morning on Scott's blog. What good information! Thank you guys for sharing it.  8)
Amanda Kertz
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Offline blatz

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Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2013, 10:04:51 AM »
not to take this thread too far off track, but I did scott's dryhop experiment with bud light and am presenting it at my next brew club meeting - its quite shaming that I have 10 quarts of bud light in my beer fridge right now, but at least I have labels with the dryhops on them!
The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

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Offline Three

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Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2013, 07:36:44 PM »
not to take this thread too far off track, but I did scott's dryhop experiment with bud light and am presenting it at my next brew club meeting - its quite shaming that I have 10 quarts of bud light in my beer fridge right now, but at least I have labels with the dryhops on them!

Ditto on the thread but I just have to comment......  Is this the most AWESOME idea ever?  I was going to do this with small batches.  This is way better!  New project for tomorrow!
Anyone who sings a tune so sweet is passin by........

Offline Three

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Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2013, 07:41:23 PM »

I've spent a lot of my morning on Scott's blog. What good information! Thank you guys for sharing it.  8)

Myself as well.  Very nice of Scott to share! 
Anyone who sings a tune so sweet is passin by........

Offline AmandaK

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Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2013, 05:01:20 AM »
not to take this thread too far off track, but I did scott's dryhop experiment with bud light and am presenting it at my next brew club meeting - its quite shaming that I have 10 quarts of bud light in my beer fridge right now, but at least I have labels with the dryhops on them!

Funny you say that. A club member posted the dry hopped BL a while back and a few of us are doing this for next week's meeting - just now I finally made the connection that it's the same blog.  ::)
Amanda Kertz
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Redbird Brewhouse - Current Project: Full Basement Bar Build