Author Topic: Mashing and Fly Sparring  (Read 2345 times)

Offline donsmitty

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Mashing and Fly Sparring
« on: March 31, 2013, 12:21:35 PM »
I just completed my first all-grain brewing and did a fly sparging.  14.45 lb of grain were in the tun along with 4.75 gal of water.  My sparge water was 4 gallons.  Given my target was to have 6 gallons pre-boil, was I OK using the volumes I did?  And, how long would you take to complete the sparging?  The numbers were from calculations done in BeerSmith.  Reading John Palmer's book, he says to use 2 qts/lb for mashing.  If I did that I would be putting in 7 gallons into the tun and it wouldn't leave much for sparging.  I'm interested in knowing what you do for calculating volume for your mash tun as well as sparging.     

Offline denny

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Re: Mashing and Fly Sparring
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 12:55:12 PM »
Me, I make life easy and batch sparge.  I mash around 1.5-2 qt./lb. , run that off, and sparge with enough to get my boil volume.  Saves me an hour over fly sparging and my efficiency is every bit as good.
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Offline donsmitty

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Re: Mashing and Fly Sparring
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2013, 12:58:06 PM »
Me, I make life easy and batch sparge.  I mash around 1.5-2 qt./lb. , run that off, and sparge with enough to get my boil volume.  Saves me an hour over fly sparging and my efficiency is every bit as good.

How do you decide if it's 1.5 or 2 qt./lb.?  Should the mash and sparge volumes be close to 50/50? 

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Mashing and Fly Sparring
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2013, 01:20:14 PM »
I'm simple, and just try to be 1.5-2 with no thought as to why. I guesstimate my Sparge water amount for boil volume using one gallon per ten pounds grain for absorption

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Offline denny

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Re: Mashing and Fly Sparring
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2013, 01:21:54 PM »
Me, I make life easy and batch sparge.  I mash around 1.5-2 qt./lb. , run that off, and sparge with enough to get my boil volume.  Saves me an hour over fly sparging and my efficiency is every bit as good.

How do you decide if it's 1.5 or 2 qt./lb.?  Should the mash and sparge volumes be close to 50/50?

Not the volumes themselves, but the runoffs from the mash and sparge should be close to the same volume.  It's not a big deal if they aren't (within a gal. of each other is usually fine), but the closer the better.  And keep in mind that this is for batch sparging.  Might be different for fly sparging.
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Re: Mashing and Fly Sparring
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2013, 01:55:04 PM »
For fly sparging, I use 1.5 quarts/#, less if i need to free up mash tun volume for more grain. I collect runnings until I get my preboil volume unless the gravity of my runnings gets below 1.015 or pH gets below 5.6(never has). My preboil volume is my keg volume(5 gal)+ fermentation loss(1/2 gal)+ trub loss(1/2 gal)+ boil loss(1.2 gallon/hour). So, for my system,  for a dipa w/ a 90 minute boil, I'd collect 8 gal. Since I fly sparged with 2 gallons more than you, I will have extracted more sugar.
On your Beersmith, under Mash Details, it tells you mash tun volume needed.

Offline donsmitty

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Re: Mashing and Fly Sparring
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2013, 02:13:46 PM »
For fly sparging, I use 1.5 quarts/#, less if i need to free up mash tun volume for more grain. I collect runnings until I get my preboil volume unless the gravity of my runnings gets below 1.015 or pH gets below 5.6(never has). My preboil volume is my keg volume(5 gal)+ fermentation loss(1/2 gal)+ trub loss(1/2 gal)+ boil loss(1.2 gallon/hour). So, for my system,  for a dipa w/ a 90 minute boil, I'd collect 8 gal. Since I fly sparged with 2 gallons more than you, I will have extracted more sugar.
On your Beersmith, under Mash Details, it tells you mash tun volume needed.

Under Brew Steps it says to mash-in with 19.06 qts. which is 4 3/4 gal. and to fly sparge with 4.01 gal.  On the Mash tab it show mash volume needed as 5.89 gal.  So what should I have used? 

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Re: Mashing and Fly Sparring
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2013, 02:34:47 PM »
Sounds about right. You have a 10 gal tun and since you're putting sparge water on top just as fast as you're draining wort out, tun volume isn't an issue. Just to be clear, based on your wording in your other thread, did you drain the first runnings completely before fly sparging?

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Mashing and Fly Sparring
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2013, 02:54:40 PM »
Me, I make life easy and batch sparge.  I mash around 1.5-2 qt./lb. , run that off, and sparge with enough to get my boil volume.  Saves me an hour over fly sparging and my efficiency is every bit as good.

How do you decide if it's 1.5 or 2 qt./lb.?  Should the mash and sparge volumes be close to 50/50?

Not the volumes themselves, but the runoffs from the mash and sparge should be close to the same volume.  It's not a big deal if they aren't (within a gal. of each other is usually fine), but the closer the better.  And keep in mind that this is for batch sparging.  Might be different for fly sparging.
Someday I need to get the blue cooler and see how much time it saves. Right now I fly sparge for about 45 minutes, but my wort is at or near a boil when I am done with the sparge.  While you drain fast and have to wait for the wort to come to a boil, right?

Jeff Rankert
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Offline repo

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Re: Mashing and Fly Sparring
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2013, 03:05:29 PM »

Under Brew Steps it says to mash-in with 19.06 qts. which is 4 3/4 gal. and to fly sparge with 4.01 gal.  On the Mash tab it show mash volume needed as 5.89 gal.  So what should I have used?

Beersmith  is saying the you need a tun capable of holding 5.89 gallons which is what the 4 3/4 gallons and grain will amount to volume wise.  It can be very confusing.

Offline donsmitty

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Re: Mashing and Fly Sparring
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2013, 06:08:53 PM »
Sounds about right. You have a 10 gal tun and since you're putting sparge water on top just as fast as you're draining wort out, tun volume isn't an issue. Just to be clear, based on your wording in your other thread, did you drain the first runnings completely before fly sparging?

We drained until we had just a little water covering the grains. 

Offline denny

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Re: Mashing and Fly Sparring
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2013, 09:26:11 AM »
Someday I need to get the blue cooler and see how much time it saves. Right now I fly sparge for about 45 minutes, but my wort is at or near a boil when I am done with the sparge.  While you drain fast and have to wait for the wort to come to a boil, right?

I start heating as soon as I have started collecting the first runnings.  But since the whole process of collecting both runnings takes me only about 15 min., there's still some time after I'm dome while I'm waiting for it to boil.  So, maybe another 10-15 min.?  Your point is well taken, though, Jeff.  When I talk about time savings it would be best to specify just where the time saving is.  If you're ever in the area on one of your trips, I'd love to have you come by for a brew and see for yourself!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline donsmitty

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Re: Mashing and Fly Sparring
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2013, 09:33:34 AM »
Someday I need to get the blue cooler and see how much time it saves. Right now I fly sparge for about 45 minutes, but my wort is at or near a boil when I am done with the sparge.  While you drain fast and have to wait for the wort to come to a boil, right?

I start heating as soon as I have started collecting the first runnings.  But since the whole process of collecting both runnings takes me only about 15 min., there's still some time after I'm dome while I'm waiting for it to boil.  So, maybe another 10-15 min.?  Your point is well taken, though, Jeff.  When I talk about time savings it would be best to specify just where the time saving is.  If you're ever in the area on one of your trips, I'd love to have you come by for a brew and see for yourself!

Jeff, you are sparging for 45 minutes (5 gal) and Denny am I calculating about 30 minutes for your sparing?  Do either of you do a mash-out? 

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Mashing and Fly Sparring
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2013, 09:47:17 AM »
Someday I need to get the blue cooler and see how much time it saves. Right now I fly sparge for about 45 minutes, but my wort is at or near a boil when I am done with the sparge.  While you drain fast and have to wait for the wort to come to a boil, right?

I start heating as soon as I have started collecting the first runnings.  But since the whole process of collecting both runnings takes me only about 15 min., there's still some time after I'm dome while I'm waiting for it to boil.  So, maybe another 10-15 min.?  Your point is well taken, though, Jeff.  When I talk about time savings it would be best to specify just where the time saving is.  If you're ever in the area on one of your trips, I'd love to have you come by for a brew and see for yourself!

Jeff, you are sparging for 45 minutes (5 gal) and Denny am I calculating about 30 minutes for your sparing?  Do either of you do a mash-out?
45 min for a 10 gallon batch. I do a mash out.

Denny, be careful, we are talking of getting out to see our friends that live in Bend again someday! See you in Philly.

One more thing, we have been playing with a sort of no sparge. Mash a little thin at 2 qts/lb. Mash out and add 168-170F water to top the mash tun out. Drain as fast as I can with the single tier + pump system. Might add a little water to make the total volume needed. Saves a few minutes, only a pont or 2 hit on efficiency, no astringency this way (I used to oversparge).
Jeff Rankert
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Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline jeffy

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Re: Mashing and Fly Sparring
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2013, 10:12:09 AM »
Someday I need to get the blue cooler and see how much time it saves. Right now I fly sparge for about 45 minutes, but my wort is at or near a boil when I am done with the sparge.  While you drain fast and have to wait for the wort to come to a boil, right?

I start heating as soon as I have started collecting the first runnings.  But since the whole process of collecting both runnings takes me only about 15 min., there's still some time after I'm dome while I'm waiting for it to boil.  So, maybe another 10-15 min.?  Your point is well taken, though, Jeff.  When I talk about time savings it would be best to specify just where the time saving is.  If you're ever in the area on one of your trips, I'd love to have you come by for a brew and see for yourself!

Jeff, you are sparging for 45 minutes (5 gal) and Denny am I calculating about 30 minutes for your sparing?  Do either of you do a mash-out?
45 min for a 10 gallon batch. I do a mash out.

Denny, be careful, we are talking of getting out to see our friends that live in Bend again someday! See you in Philly.

One more thing, we have been playing with a sort of no sparge. Mash a little thin at 2 qts/lb. Mash out and add 168-170F water to top the mash tun out. Drain as fast as I can with the single tier + pump system. Might add a little water to make the total volume needed. Saves a few minutes, only a pont or 2 hit on efficiency, no astringency this way (I used to oversparge).

I made an IPA yesterday and used a kind of hybrid, sort of like what you did.  I mashed with 1.5 Q/# and drained the mash tun almost completely before adding any sparge liquor then did this addition in stages, letting the wort drain out almost completely before adding additional water to the top of the grain bed.  Efficiency was better than usual and I think it was a little faster, but I didn't time it.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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