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When/how to add Brett as a secondary yeast?

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erockrph:

--- Quote from: redbeerman on April 10, 2013, 10:00:39 AM ---
--- Quote from: gmac on April 10, 2013, 09:52:34 AM ---WLP670 is a blend that I think is very similar to what your asking about. Obviously both yeast get pitched at the same time. I think the sacc gets going fast and the Brett is slower and cleans up all the leftovers. Assuming this is true, I wouldn't think it would matter.

--- End quote ---

I'm not a big fan of that because I don't like leaving the full load of primary yeast around while the Brett does it's work.  I know the Brett is supposed to clean up the autolysis byproducts, but I have had great results racking into the secondary and then pitching the Brett.  I just think leaving a primary yeast at warm room temps for a year like the Brett likes is not a good idea.

--- End quote ---

When do you rack to the secondary? Do you let the primary yeast finish completely first or leave a little extra for the Brett to chew on? One idea I had was to rack to secondary when it gets to the 1.020's to possibly slow down the saison yeast a bit while the Brett gets going.

ynotbrusum:

--- Quote from: redbeerman on April 10, 2013, 10:00:39 AM ---
--- Quote from: gmac on April 10, 2013, 09:52:34 AM ---WLP670 is a blend that I think is very similar to what your asking about. Obviously both yeast get pitched at the same time. I think the sacc gets going fast and the Brett is slower and cleans up all the leftovers. Assuming this is true, I wouldn't think it would matter.

--- End quote ---

I'm not a big fan of that because I don't like leaving the full load of primary yeast around while the Brett does it's work.  I know the Brett is supposed to clean up the autolysis byproducts, but I have had great results racking into the secondary and then pitching the Brett.  I just think leaving a primary yeast at warm room temps for a year like the Brett likes is not a good idea.

--- End quote ---

That is the first time I heard of that issue, indeed, the blended products have both and must be pitched "together". White Labs Berliner Weisse blend is an example, as is Roselaire.  Still your point about autolysis is seemingly a good one, at least intuitively.  I wonder if the Brett metabolizes the autolysis byproducts? If so, then some yeast leftover would be a good thing.

kylekohlmorgen:

--- Quote from: erockrph on April 10, 2013, 10:10:45 AM ---When do you rack to the secondary? Do you let the primary yeast finish completely first or leave a little extra for the Brett to chew on? One idea I had was to rack to secondary when it gets to the 1.020's to possibly slow down the saison yeast a bit while the Brett gets going.

--- End quote ---

Allow your primary yeast to complete a healthy fermentation, take up by-products, and floc out.

Brett doesn't need fermentable sugars (or even unfermentable ones) to live and produce flavor compounds. Brett will metabolize just about anything and turn it into flavor: proteins/carbohydrates, hop acids, even alcohol and existing flavor compounds from the primary yeast. Brett will have a flavor impact despite the FG, especially with that specific strain.

You'll need a few gravity points for brett to ferment and produce CO2 (I assume you're bottling?). I always assume that brett in the bottle will take me down to 1.002 eventually, take that into account when you're thinking about priming sugar. You can also bottle some without priming sugar for long aging. Prime the rest like normal, opening a bottle every month or so to check for over carbonation.

You don't need to make a starter unless you want to keep some brett slurry around for later on. I use brett in a lot of beers, so I keep a starter going and pull off slurry as I need it.

gmac:
I've had 3711 take me down to 1.002 alone.
I wait until the rapid fermentation is done and then keg. I don't worry about being perfectly clear when I siphon. I admit I'm assuming that I'm getting Brett in the beer because it shouldn't be done and floc'd out totally. Then it sits in the keg until I need it. I find that even with some yeast in the keg once it's sat for a day or two it clears fast.
Not saying I'm doing it right but I'm happy.

redbeerman:
I would think better results would be had by doing a dextrinous mash if using a saison yeast if you plan on pitching Brett in the secondary, much as in a Flanders style.  Low mash temps and a monster saison yeast (like 3711) probably won't leave much for the Brett to work on. YMMV.

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