[tommymorris]

One package of dry yeast is about 220B cells if you believe Mr. Malty. Other sources say less (http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/#cells_per_gram)

220B is not enough for many lagers so you need more than 1 pack.  Mangrove Jack generically recommends 2 packs for a lager.

So you can pay $8 for 2 packs or $4 for 1 pack plus like $1 worth of DME in a starter. (Prices from rebelbrewer.com)

Anyway, I know that dry yeast is supposed to be convenient but I am wondering if some brewer's troubles with dry yeast in Lagers result from under pitching rather than the quality or strain of yeast.

[beersk]

One package of dry yeast is about 220B cells if you believe Mr. Malty. Other sources say less (http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/#cells_per_gram)

220B is not enough for many lagers so you need more than 1 pack.  Mangrove Jack generically recommends 2 packs for a lager.

So you can pay $8 for 2 packs or $4 for 1 pack plus like $1 worth of DME in a starter. (Prices from rebelbrewer.com)

Anyway, I know that dry yeast is supposed to be convenient but I am wondering if some brewer's troubles with dry yeast in Lagers result from under pitching rather than the quality or strain of yeast.

Rebel Brewer has Wyeast for $4? You have to factor shipping into all of this as well. Wyeast is $6.25 at Northern Brewer. Still, I think it's better to build up a starter with a pack of liquid yeast over a week and a half and have the fresh, healthy yeast instead of a couple of packs of dry yeast that maybe aren't so healthy and ready to eat.
Besides, the Mangrove Jack's boh lager yeast takes about 3 days to get going. It's annoying.

[tommymorris]

One package of dry yeast is about 220B cells if you believe Mr. Malty. Other sources say less (http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/#cells_per_gram)

220B is not enough for many lagers so you need more than 1 pack.  Mangrove Jack generically recommends 2 packs for a lager.

So you can pay $8 for 2 packs or $4 for 1 pack plus like $1 worth of DME in a starter. (Prices from rebelbrewer.com)

Anyway, I know that dry yeast is supposed to be convenient but I am wondering if some brewer's troubles with dry yeast in Lagers result from under pitching rather than the quality or strain of yeast.

Rebel Brewer has Wyeast for $4? You have to factor shipping into all of this as well. Wyeast is $6.25 at Northern Brewer. Still, I think it's better to build up a starter with a pack of liquid yeast over a week and a half and have the fresh, healthy yeast instead of a couple of packs of dry yeast that maybe aren't so healthy and ready to eat.
Besides, the Mangrove Jack's boh lager yeast takes about 3 days to get going. It's annoying.

Rebel has Mangrove Jack for $4. Liquid yeasts are more. Typical online prices, $6-7.

[tschmidlin]

One package of dry yeast is about 220B cells if you believe Mr. Malty. Other sources say less (http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/#cells_per_gram)

220B is not enough for many lagers so you need more than 1 pack.  Mangrove Jack generically recommends 2 packs for a lager.

So you can pay $8 for 2 packs or $4 for 1 pack plus like $1 worth of DME in a starter. (Prices from rebelbrewer.com)

Anyway, I know that dry yeast is supposed to be convenient but I am wondering if some brewer's troubles with dry yeast in Lagers result from under pitching rather than the quality or strain of yeast.

Rebel Brewer has Wyeast for $4? You have to factor shipping into all of this as well. Wyeast is $6.25 at Northern Brewer. Still, I think it's better to build up a starter with a pack of liquid yeast over a week and a half and have the fresh, healthy yeast instead of a couple of packs of dry yeast that maybe aren't so healthy and ready to eat.
Besides, the Mangrove Jack's boh lager yeast takes about 3 days to get going. It's annoying.

Rebel has Mangrove Jack for $4. Liquid yeasts are more. Typical online prices, $6-7.

I've never used Mangrove Jack yeast, but typically it is not ideal to make a starter with dried yeast.  Pitching more packs is the way to go.

[albionwood]

I've used the M27 Belgian strain twice and had good results.  First was a Leffe clone, came out fairly close, with loads of spicy character and a definite pepper note.  Dried the beer out very well, too, without using any sugar (1062 down to 1008).  In fact it might have gone a little too far, the mouthfeel was a bit thin.

I saved about a pint of the cake after kegging that beer, and pitched it into a strong gold (OG 1074), along with a packet of T-58.  It went down to 1012.  Drinking that one now, and loving it - good body, complex spicy estery profile. 

Now I have several carboys of cider going with M2, having heard good reviews, and am hoping that lives up to the hype.

[Greg D]

This yeast garnished my attention as being from a source in New Zealand.  I ordered (5) packs of the M20 Wheat / Hefeweizen from Austin Home Brew.   When reading the package (where there were no photos on the Internet of the back) I discovered it is actually made in the UK from "Local and imported sources".  Excuse me?   Imported from New Zealand, or where?   

Anyway, I went with my original plan of tasting this yeast by showcasing it.  Used an all dry Hefeweizen kit from Morebeer.com, basically 3 gallons of spring water, 6 pounds of DME, no grains, added 14 oz. sugar blend to boost the booze, started the 60 minute boil with .5 oz Northern Brewer hops for bittering.  Cooled down to 68-69F in about 15 minutes using 2 gallons of freezer water that was at 34F.   Pitched two packs, sealed it and went to bed. 

Hello to my second blowoff ever (it was my 8th brew).   It blew the lid off the bucket and when I resealed it it instantly blew the airlock into the ceiling fan.   Wife was not impressed.   We've all been there right?   

Cleaned up the mess (only lost a small amount), installed a blow off hose into an empty spring water bottle, it chugged hard for about 6 hours and now I have it under control with an airlock back in place. 

So, I would say that a single package of the M20 Wheat is enough for a 6 gallon Hefeweizen.   

Will report back on the taste in about a month. 

Greg D
College Station, Texas

Yes, this is indeed  my 1st post here.  Have been using home brew forums for about 10 years and am looking for a new forum to call home.   Thank you to the admin for the access and looking forward to down to earth interaction on this forum, suggested to me by Chris at Austin Home Brew.   Cheers.

[tommymorris]

This yeast garnished my attention as being from a source in New Zealand.  I ordered (5) packs of the M20 Wheat / Hefeweizen from Austin Home Brew.   When reading the package (where there were no photos on the Internet of the back) I discovered it is actually made in the UK from "Local and imported sources".  Excuse me?   Imported from New Zealand, or where?   

Anyway, I went with my original plan of tasting this yeast by showcasing it.  Used an all dry Hefeweizen kit from Morebeer.com, basically 3 gallons of spring water, 6 pounds of DME, no grains, added 14 oz. sugar blend to boost the booze, started the 60 minute boil with .5 oz Northern Brewer hops for bittering.  Cooled down to 68-69F in about 15 minutes using 2 gallons of freezer water that was at 34F.   Pitched two packs, sealed it and went to bed. 

Hello to my second blowoff ever (it was my 8th brew).   It blew the lid off the bucket and when I resealed it it instantly blew the airlock into the ceiling fan.   Wife was not impressed.   We've all been there right?   

Cleaned up the mess (only lost a small amount), installed a blow off hose into an empty spring water bottle, it chugged hard for about 6 hours and now I have it under control with an airlock back in place. 

So, I would say that a single package of the M20 Wheat is enough for a 6 gallon Hefeweizen.   

Will report back on the taste in about a month. 

Greg D
College Station, Texas

Yes, this is indeed  my 1st post here.  Have been using home brew forums for about 10 years and am looking for a new forum to call home.   Thank you to the admin for the access and looking forward to down to earth interaction on this forum, suggested to me by Chris at Austin Home Brew.   Cheers.

Farmers fight!
Farmers fight!
Fight! Fight!
Farmers, farmers fight!

Howdy, Greg.

- Tommy '94

[Greg D]

Howdy Tommy!   Forgot to mention that I also used an AHS Yeast Fuel.   Was not needed with a double pitch, unless you want a blowout.   

Very powerful yeast.

Greg

[beersk]

I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I've never had a good fermentation with Mangrove Jack's yeast of any kind. Water chemistry, pure o2, rehydration of the yeast, mash low...none of it worked for me. I attributed my issues to their sh!tty yeast.

I have some left unfortunately because I was on a dry yeast kick for a while. I recently did an open fermented hefe, 1.5 gallons, 1 packet of the hefe yeast. Roused it every day, mashed low, used phosphoric to adjust water pH, gave it pure o2... Damn thing finished at 1.018. I've had plenty other beers not finish below 1.016, most stopping around 1.019-1.020.

The hefe was really good, however...for whatever that's worth.

[Greg D]

beersk - That seems odd to me.  Maybe it's a freshness issue?  I used Crystal Geyser spring water like I always do, which in Texas ranges from being sourced from Arkansas to Texas.  Latest shipments to local grocers are from NE Texas.   And I didn't rehydrate it.  Just pitched the two packs on top of the wort before putting the lid on.   With liquid yeast I normally pitch it first then dump the wort on it but since Mangrove Jack's is top fermenting I just tossed it on the top.  It actually started producing krausen like instantly before I put the lid on the bucket. 

Told my wife I was concerned about a blow out.  Sure enough. 

Of the (5) packs I ordered I have one left with an expiration date of 12/14/14.  You're welcome to have it if you want, just drop me an address in private and I'll drop it in the mail.  Free of course. 

After the success of M20 Bavarian, I would most certainly try their other strains.   Can't wait to taste it.  3 days later the fermentation has slowed considerably.   Will probably steal a sample this weekend, test the ABV and probably bottle it.

Greg

[beersk]

I'm not saying it's bad tasting yeast, but the performance I've gotten is very poor. The open fermented hefe I did with the M20 was actually one of the best hefes I've ever brewed, and even rivaled the best I've ever had. I drank the last bottle of the 1.2 gallon batch last week and it was amazing. Even though it finished at 1.018...I think the residual sweetness adds a bit to a hefe, not that I want all my hefes to finish that high though.
I'm not going to use Mangrove Jack's again though. Thanks for the offer.
I do still have a pack of the West Coast IPA yeast in my fridge...maybe I should do another small batch to be bottled with it...maybe a double black IPA or something I won't drink super often.

[Jimmy K]

I did an IPA with Workhorse.  The beer tastes good but it finished a little high (1.018 from 1.056, 66.7% attenuation).  Curious to see if other people have had similar attenuations with this yeast.

I did a porter with the West Coast IPA yeast and got 77.6% attenuation which I was pretty happy with....

I've only heard of a couple of people having good attenuation with the Workhorse. Just do yourself a favor and don't use Mangrove Jack's!

I made a cream ale with Workhorse. It went from 1.048 to 1.015 for 68% attenuation. I'm fairly disappointed with that, especially for a relatively low alcohol beer with a high proportion of corn!
 
I was taken in by the 'lager and ale yeast' claim. But it doesn't ferment below 60F anyway. Dammit US-05 ferments at 60F! I think that lager claim is dubious.

Might be good for a 3% session ale though.

[HoosierBrew]

I did an IPA with Workhorse.  The beer tastes good but it finished a little high (1.018 from 1.056, 66.7% attenuation).  Curious to see if other people have had similar attenuations with this yeast.

I did a porter with the West Coast IPA yeast and got 77.6% attenuation which I was pretty happy with....

I've only heard of a couple of people having good attenuation with the Workhorse. Just do yourself a favor and don't use Mangrove Jack's!

I made a cream ale with Workhorse. It went from 1.048 to 1.015 for 68% attenuation. I'm fairly disappointed with that, especially for a relatively low alcohol beer with a high proportion of corn!
 
I was taken in by the 'lager and ale yeast' claim. But it doesn't ferment below 60F anyway. Dammit US-05 ferments at 60F! I think that lager claim is dubious.

Might be good for a 3% session ale though.

Wow, I think I'll pass on that one.  That's surprisingly low attenuation for a cream ale w/ maize. It's usually a more of a challenge not to finish too low with a grist like that.

[reverseapachemaster]

People in my homebrew club won't shut up about how much they like the Mangrove Jack yeast but I tend to only hear how much they like the flavor and nothing about how it is performing on a technical level. I wouldn't be too happy with that poor of attenuation.

[4swan]

I've only done one batch with the M44 West Coast yeast on an APA with an OG of 1.051.  Just sprinkling and mixing in the wort, the fermentation started within 24 hours and the final gravity was 1.010, 80% attenuation.  The beer is good and I'd use the yeast again.