Author Topic: Cleaning chemicals  (Read 6719 times)

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Cleaning chemicals
« on: May 02, 2013, 06:06:50 AM »
Would you guys like to share what kind of cleaning chemicals are you using?

I am using PBW and it is fine for soaking but does not cut it on SS.
I also have Acid Cleaner 5 but it looks like it is too weak also.

I am using Saniclen for sanitizing and that is fine.
Starsand for manual sanitizing and that is fine as well.

All products are from Five Star Chemicals.

Any recommendation?
Na Zdravie

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Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
MaiBock
American Brown Ale
Marzen
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Cleaning chemicals
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2013, 06:11:59 AM »
Are you saying that PBW doesn't remove beerstone? For beerstone you need acid and some scrubbing.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Cleaning chemicals
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2013, 06:29:47 AM »
Regular passivation (I do quarterly) will cut down on beer stone.

I use Loeffler Chemcials. I still mix up some "PBW" for little side jobs, but it doesn't cut it on stainless (oddly it works fairly well on plastic).

For Fermentaion tanks we use Lerapur (caustic) and Lerasept O (oxidizer) hot for 20-40 minutes.

For BBTs and stainless kegs we Use Leracid. For passivation we use double strength Leracid. Sometimes we flush all Co2 out of BBTs and caustic clean them. You don't want to use Caustic in the presence of Co2 because it cuts down on it efficacy.

We use Leracept PAA for sanitizing and 70% isopropyl alc for ports and valves and such.

For homebrewing, 5 star is fine but even though it is expensive you will have a lot less frustrations cleaning using Industrial cleaners/sanitizers. The PAA has a much higher kill rate that Star San.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 06:37:23 AM by majorvices »
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Offline a10t2

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Re: Cleaning chemicals
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2013, 07:30:23 AM »
For fermenters, non-chlorinated caustic for cleaning and chlorine dioxide (activated with phosphoric acid) for sanitizing. Parts and pieces get soaked in CMC, then either Star San or iodophor, switched weekly just to keep the critters guessing. For brights/kegs (once we start kegging), Acid #6 and then ClO2, under pressure*. Once a quarter I'll do an acid cycle/passivation on the fermenters, as well as blow down the brights for a caustic cycle. I also keep a spray bottle of 99% isopropanol around for flaming ports prior to yeast harvesting, trub drops, etc.


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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Cleaning chemicals
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2013, 10:16:52 AM »
I use a liquid caustic (not sure of the manufacturer, I didn't order it and I'm not at the brewery) and purisan (Wesmar peracetic acid).
Tom Schmidlin

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Cleaning chemicals
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2013, 09:46:28 AM »
Thank you guys for the input.
I contacted local chemical supplier. we have a lot of food production in Dairy state so availability is not the issue.

I have to say I am more confused about it then I was before.
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Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
MaiBock
American Brown Ale
Marzen
Root beer

Offline anthony

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Re: Cleaning chemicals
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2013, 06:13:31 PM »
At times, I'm finding myself underwhelmed by both price and performance of PBW as well too.

Sometimes I use Liquid Circulation Cleaner #1 from Five Star and it is a lot more effective with less, BUT then I have to worry about gloves, goggles, etc.

Acid #5 is for passivation, doesn't really work well for removing organic deposits, but for beer stone, it seems to work alright.

I don't mind the foaming properties of Star-San, again because I don't really have to take serious precautions when handling it vs PAA.

Offline newrocset

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Re: Cleaning chemicals
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2013, 10:54:17 PM »
I have been using Birko Cell-R-Master to clean my stainless kettles, kegs, and glass carboys for the past year and love it way more than PBW.  A few of my brew club members piggybacked on a bulk order with one of our breweries who uses a lot of their products.  I haven't tried any of their other products.
Have a Kolsch and a smile!

Offline quattlebaum

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Re: Cleaning chemicals
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2013, 07:05:03 AM »
Personally i use PBW on all my brewing equipment. I have noticed it doesnt work as well on My SS HERMS system. For PBW to be most effective you MUST heat it to at least 140 degrees and 1 oz per gallon. 5 star says heat between 140 and 160 and DO NOT go over 180. It will change the structure of the chemical and turn it to gel/glue like substance. I did this in a small SS pot and sure enough it did turn to gel. Very hard to clean off even with scrubbing. I clean my HERMS with PBW heated to 145 every 10th batch or so and must scrub with sponge.
I also have really high Bicarb/hard water and it requires a 1:20 acid (Nitric/phosphoric blend) to dissolve it. It must be heated also. It really works well. Turns it to powder right before my eyes.

I wish i could find a more affordable chemical like PBW for my HERMS to clean organic material. Can anyone point me in a direction where i can buy online? 

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Cleaning chemicals
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2013, 07:40:24 AM »
I have been using Birko Cell-R-Master to clean my stainless kettles, kegs, and glass carboys for the past year and love it way more than PBW.
Is this a liquid or powder.
What size containers it comes in? Is it Acid or Costic/Base?
I heard a good things about Birko.
Na Zdravie

On Tap At The TapRoom:
Bohemian Pilsner
Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
MaiBock
American Brown Ale
Marzen
Root beer

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Cleaning chemicals
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2013, 07:43:35 AM »
For PBW to be most effective you MUST heat it to at least 140 degrees and 1 oz per gallon. 5 star says heat between 140 and 160 and DO NOT go over 180.
I found that running PBW colder is better. I run it at 160F and it seperated and coded my bright tank walls. I was not able to remove it yet with good acid.
Na Zdravie

On Tap At The TapRoom:
Bohemian Pilsner
Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
MaiBock
American Brown Ale
Marzen
Root beer

Offline quattlebaum

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Re: Cleaning chemicals
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2013, 08:09:14 AM »
That sucks! i was worried about that happening on my HERMS i am lucky enough to have an in with a local brewery and they use Shepard brothers shear 250 which is a heavy duty liquid alkaline cleaner for circulation, soak and spray cleaning for brewery. It takes all organic material off in no time, no scrubbing. I just dont feel comfortable asking them for it all the time. It is hard to get this type of product on a home brew level without going through someone else. I believe when we step up our homebrew systems to pre pro level we would benefit from such professional chemicals.

Offline newrocset

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Re: Cleaning chemicals
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2013, 08:01:34 PM »
I have been using Birko Cell-R-Master to clean my stainless kettles, kegs, and glass carboys for the past year and love it way more than PBW.
Is this a liquid or powder.
What size containers it comes in? Is it Acid or Costic/Base?
I heard a good things about Birko.

Powder Form, I think we got a 25lb. order that came in a 5 gallon bucket, but you can order up to 450 lbs.  Their website says they make mostly acid cleaners.
Here's a link to their website.  If you click on the "matching products" tab, it gives you the 5 star equivalent.
http://www.birkocorp.com/brewery/
I've brought a solution of this cleaner to a boil to clean my plate chiller and have had excellent results.
Have a Kolsch and a smile!

Offline wayne1

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Re: Cleaning chemicals
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2013, 06:49:54 AM »
Thirsty_Monk,

You may want to read this "White Paper"http://www.birkocorp.com/brewery/white-papers/noncaustic-cleaning-in-the-brewery/ that Dana Johnson of Birko wrote back in '96 for New Brewer.

It gives good reasons for using an Acid cycle first on the brew kettle followed immediately by a non-caustic alkaline wash, no rinse between. He has also written several other white papers on using Nitric/Phosphoric acid blends with added detergents for bright tank and keg cleaning.

I have used PBW, Bru-R-EZ, Cell-R-Mastr, etc. They all have their uses. I do prefer to use a non-caustic alkaline over caustics for safety.

Give Dana a call or E-mail. I am sure he can help you out.

Offline brewmonk

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Re: Cleaning chemicals
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2013, 07:42:50 AM »
We use Ecolab products

mipCIP (lye solution) for cleaning
Horolith V (nitric acid solution) for beer stone
Oxonia Active (peracetic acid solution) for sanitizing

(Actually haven't had to remove any beer stone yet)
Br. Francis
Birra Nursia