Author Topic: Saison help  (Read 920 times)

Offline roffenburger

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Saison help
« on: May 09, 2013, 05:38:55 PM »
I have three saison strains, WLP565, WLP570 and WLP568(?). I got them from a local brewery who was doing some trial fermentations with them.

I am going to brew a batch and split between the three strains. Do you guys have any tips for fermentation temperature profiles on each of these? I hear 565 tends to stall out if you don't pay close attention to the temperature. Are the other two pretty straight forward? I plan to start around 68 and let temperature free rise and maybe apply some heat if needed. How warm should I get them?

The recipe is the Saison from BCS
Travis R.

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Saison help
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2013, 04:36:00 AM »
I have personally never had an issue with 565 and think the concerns are all greatly exaggerated. I pretty much handle my saison a similar to any other ale strain. Start "coolish", say around 64-66, and warm near end. The exception is I may let them warm into high 70s after a couple days.
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Offline roffenburger

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Re: Saison help
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2013, 06:33:19 AM »
Sounds good. Thanks for the input.

I wonder what triggers the stall for some people. Underpitching, perhaps?
Travis R.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Saison help
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2013, 07:00:46 AM »
It may be an issue with the Wyeast 3724 but not WLP565 because I usually only see the complaints associated with the Wyeast strain (but that may not be accurate).

I have cultured out of Dupont bottles and there is definitely a lag to reach FG. I have never experienced a stall but it does hit a wall and work down slowly. Unlike many strains, I find it really needs an additional several weeks to mellow out some harshness in the yeast character. Dupont takes like 6-8 weeks from pitch to release because it's a finicky yeast/blend of yeast. The only way I've heard people say they have completely avoided the lag is by slightly over-aerating and adding a healthy amount of yeast nutrient, which makes sense. I haven't had a chance to try it out yet because I banked my saison strains at the end of last summer and I'm going to work with 3711 this summer.
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Online Joe Sr.

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Re: Saison help
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2013, 07:30:38 AM »
3724 is very finicky in my experience.  It's been years since I've used it simply because I've always had a hard time getting it to finish.  I don't have a reliable way to warm the fermenter to bring the temp up at the end, which may be my problem with this yeast.  Once it stalls, it takes forever to finish.

I've recently used 3711 and my experience (one batch) is that it is important to raise the temp to get it to finish.  I had it in the low 60s and it seemed to stall.  I moved it to a warmer location, roused the yeast and was able to get it up to 70 and it finished nicely.

T-58 does not seem to be so temperature sensitive.

Of course, none of these are the White Labs strains so there may be some variation in performance.
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Saison help
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2013, 07:46:00 AM »
It may be an issue with the Wyeast 3724 but not WLP565 because I usually only see the complaints associated with the Wyeast strain (but that may not be accurate).

I have cultured out of Dupont bottles and there is definitely a lag to reach FG. I have never experienced a stall but it does hit a wall and work down slowly. Unlike many strains, I find it really needs an additional several weeks to mellow out some harshness in the yeast character. Dupont takes like 6-8 weeks from pitch to release because it's a finicky yeast/blend of yeast. The only way I've heard people say they have completely avoided the lag is by slightly over-aerating and adding a healthy amount of yeast nutrient, which makes sense. I haven't had a chance to try it out yet because I banked my saison strains at the end of last summer and I'm going to work with 3711 this summer.

I have noticed a lag with 565, but never had an issue reaching FG or high attenuation. I have heard that 565 is just one of the strains from DuPont and that they actually use a mixed strain so bottle culturing might be different regardless.

I have never had an issue having to age any beer using 565 to mellow and harshness. I do think 3711 attenuates a bit higher than 565 and is easier to work with but there is a very nice fruitiness you get from 565 that you won't get from 3711.

One issue with both strains is they take some time to clear, and 565 can be very stubborn to drop clear.
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Saison help
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2013, 07:50:15 AM »
In regards to problems some brewers may have with either strain it's important to give the mash a long (extra long) mash and 146 is a good temp to aim for. Shoot for 90-120 minutes. Limit or exclude any crystal malt. Either strain (565 or 3711) will be capable of hitting 90+% aa with little difficulties under those perimeters.
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: Saison help
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2013, 08:40:24 AM »
3724 is very finicky in my experience.  It's been years since I've used it simply because I've always had a hard time getting it to finish.  I don't have a reliable way to warm the fermenter to bring the temp up at the end, which may be my problem with this yeast.  Once it stalls, it takes forever to finish.

+1.  I had to wrap a heating pad around the fermenter and get it to 85F before it would finish out.  Quite a hassle....

Dave
Dave Zach

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Re: Saison help
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2013, 09:08:52 AM »
3724 is very finicky in my experience.  It's been years since I've used it simply because I've always had a hard time getting it to finish.  I don't have a reliable way to warm the fermenter to bring the temp up at the end, which may be my problem with this yeast.  Once it stalls, it takes forever to finish.

+1.  I had to wrap a heating pad around the fermenter and get it to 85F before it would finish out.  Quite a hassle....

Dave
+1.  Thought I'd pass on a little recent experiment with 3724.  I love the flavor of 3724 the best of all the saisons, but I hadn't been able to get it under 1.008 or 9.  So this time I gave the 3724 ten days, and then added a little 3711 which we know to be a voracious eater. Five days later and it was 1.002, like I wanted. It's still in the fermenter, so I haven't had it in final form, but I love the sample I had. Tastes mostly DuPont with a little of the 3711 character. I think it's a good way to get the character of 3724, with a shorter time window.
Jon H.