Author Topic: Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt  (Read 2082 times)

Offline TrippleRippleBrewer

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Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt
« on: May 13, 2013, 12:38:18 PM »
I'd like to brew a German style Heffeweizen and wondered if anyone has experimented with this yeast using 2 row brewers instead of Pils malt? I know the traditional recipes call for pils malt but I have 2 row.
 
Originally I planned to brew 10 gallons and ferment half with S05 and the half with WLP300 but I brewed something else last weekend instead. I think this will still make a nice beer but I'm not sure of the results. I don't use this yeast often and it's been a couple years.

I recall reading in Zymurgy that some compound or protein in Pils malt contributes to the phenols generated  by this strain but I am not sure. I also recall some suggested techniques to enhance the phenolics - underpitch a bit, and ferment it colder at around 62 degrees if possible.

Just looking for some feedback on the above.

Thanks everyone

Growing Centennial, Columbus and Chinook hops.
Brewing IPA, APA, Dead Guy clone, and American Wheat most of the time.
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Re: Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2013, 12:55:56 PM »
I don't know about the pilsner v. pale question. I do know that I can often taste the candy/grapy sweetness that you get with pilsner and in a lighter style it shows through more. Now in a style with lots of wheat and , hopefully some nice spicy phenolics I don't know that you would notice it much.

You can perform an acid rest during the mash (114*f I think) which is supposed to increase the precursors for the clove phenolic.

I remember reading in Brewing with Wheat that you can increase some ester/phenolics in hefe yeast through slight underpitching but unless you are doing cell counts I don't know that you would have the control you would want going that route.

I would try the Acid rest alone first
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Offline majorvices

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Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2013, 04:32:02 PM »
You will make fine beer with the 2 row but if you want to make a Germam style wheat beer I'd recommend using German malt.

The ferulic acid rest is done around 111 for 15-30 mon and. Is supposed to increase the clove like phenols.
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Re: Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2013, 04:50:29 PM »
I'd like to brew a German style Heffeweizen and wondered if anyone has experimented with this yeast using 2 row brewers instead of Pils malt? I know the traditional recipes call for pils malt but I have 2 row.
 
Originally I planned to brew 10 gallons and ferment half with S05 and the half with WLP300 but I brewed something else last weekend instead. I think this will still make a nice beer but I'm not sure of the results. I don't use this yeast often and it's been a couple years.

I recall reading in Zymurgy that some compound or protein in Pils malt contributes to the phenols generated  by this strain but I am not sure. I also recall some suggested techniques to enhance the phenolics - underpitch a bit, and ferment it colder at around 62 degrees if possible.

Just looking for some feedback on the above.

Thanks everyone


I read the same article in Zymurgy about fermentation temps for hefes, and fermented my next one afterward @ ~62 or 63 like the author did. And I agree with him - I thought the yeast character was the best of any hefe I'd brewed. More complex, as opposed to just one note banana.
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Offline quattlebaum

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Re: Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2013, 06:29:51 PM »
I have used 2 row before and it's fine. I do prefer the pilsner just by preference. This is mine
OG. 1.048
FG. 1.012
58% best wheat malt
37% best pilsner or 2 row
5% aromatic

Mash 154 x75min
Decoction on 2lbs or so boil x 15 min on stove and mash out at 168

Ferm at 62 with 3068. I like a little more banana than clove though. Just brewed this up 4/20 drinking on 5/11

Offline TrippleRippleBrewer

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Re: Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2013, 06:53:30 PM »
Thanks Everyone!
Personally I'm more of a fan of the banana flavors from this yeast myself and thanks again for the tips guys.


Growing Centennial, Columbus and Chinook hops.
Brewing IPA, APA, Dead Guy clone, and American Wheat most of the time.
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Offline beersk

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Re: Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2013, 06:08:32 AM »
Thanks Everyone!
Personally I'm more of a fan of the banana flavors from this yeast myself and thanks again for the tips guys.



Don't ferment at 62F then if you want more banana. You'll need to go higher, more like 66-68F.  I just brewed a hefe 2 days ago with half 2-row and half white wheat for the base. Trying out the new Mangrove Jack's dry hefe yeast to see how it stacks up to the Weihenstephan yeast. Would love to have a dry option for hefes. I've read that WB-06 doesn't get very banana-y.
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Offline TrippleRippleBrewer

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Re: Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2013, 06:29:25 AM »
Thanks for that tip. I have two packets of WB-06 ready to try by the way and I later changed my mind and picked up a vial of WLP300 from my LHBS. The higher temps you've suggested are probably where I'll be at because I've just moved and I no longer have a fermentation fridge. Just going free air in my new basement and it's about 68 to 66 degrees most of the time.

One more question - thoughts on using Vienna instead of the two row pale?

My grist and OG is almost identical to what quattlebaum posted so it's about 60/40 wheat / pale malt. I am adding 5% torrified. Had a small amount of Munich in it instead of the aromatic but I would leave that out if using the Vienna.
Growing Centennial, Columbus and Chinook hops.
Brewing IPA, APA, Dead Guy clone, and American Wheat most of the time.
Located in Three Rivers MI

Offline quattlebaum

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Re: Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2013, 07:18:31 AM »
Never tried Vienna. Might be tasty. I have been attempting to brew something like Franziskaner and this is close. I believe if i bottle conditioned it with added yeast it would be spot on. Anyway i enjoy it. Would love to know how the vienna turns out.

Offline TrippleRippleBrewer

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Re: Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2013, 11:23:20 AM »
Sometimes I wonder what's going on with my brain. My last beer was an IPA and I wrote the recipe based on hops I thought I had, and turned out I actually had none of them in the freezer. I had other appropriate strains and scrambled and it was fine. I used all my 2 row for that beer though.

Checked my inventory and I don't have any 2row brewers malt, but I have 3lbs of Vienna and 2lbs Pils!
I'm going to try the Vienna. Love that malt anyway.

Took my own topic off topic a bit.

Thanks Guys
Growing Centennial, Columbus and Chinook hops.
Brewing IPA, APA, Dead Guy clone, and American Wheat most of the time.
Located in Three Rivers MI

Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2013, 04:47:06 AM »
Never tried Vienna. Might be tasty. I have been attempting to brew something like Franziskaner and this is close. I believe if i bottle conditioned it with added yeast it would be spot on. Anyway i enjoy it. Would love to know how the vienna turns out.

Think you will appreciate a little Vienna and Munich malts in the mix . 1-2 lbs of each, and 1lb of pilsner with the rest being wheat makes a mighty fine hefe. Wlp300 is my yeast of choice, and 68f will provide a nice banana profile you are looking for. Try to hit 5.4-5.5 ph and mash at 154-55f. Good luck.

Offline TrippleRippleBrewer

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Re: Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2013, 07:20:58 AM »
November 2011 issue Zymurgy called "Cold Fermentations" has a great article about comparing various fermentation temps with both the Wyeast 3068 and WLP 300 as well as Kolsch yeasts.

From my memory in reading it this morning whilst on the throne ( hope that's not TMI ):

Blind tasting consensus basically showed the 3068 fermented at around 62 gave the best tasting sample overall with well balanced Banana and Clove. 68-70 fermentation temps for both strains gave more clove and in the case of the Wyeast strain, a bit more bubble gum. The WLP300 was quite spicy at this temp and was much better at the lower temperature. It was "clean" and well balanced.

Considering that I have both the WLP300 and Fermentis WB-06 without much ability to control fermentation temps and not time for a starter, I am thinking about blending them and going with wet T-shirt ( skin to win ! ) fermentation trick in a laundry tub with water and fan to try and keep it around 65 or so. In other words, just wing it and see how I like it.

Like the idea of blended base malts with the wheat. The recipe in the article is larger than typical Heffeweizen style at 1.060 but that actually sounds good to me. I'll probably use 2lbs Pils, 1lb Munich, 1lb Vienna and increase the wheat malt accordingly to stay in the 60/40 range wheat to base malt and try to hit a similar OG.

Using Crystal for around 14 IBU or so.

Thanks Guys!
Growing Centennial, Columbus and Chinook hops.
Brewing IPA, APA, Dead Guy clone, and American Wheat most of the time.
Located in Three Rivers MI

Offline TrippleRippleBrewer

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Re: Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2013, 12:22:11 PM »
Just a follow-up on this beer which I brewed June 1st.

  • I used RO water and added 1/4tsp each Calcium Chloride and Gypsum to the mash and sparge water respectively. This was a crapshoot guess and I need to get Brunwater setup on my laptop for future water profile work
  • I used a blend of Pilsner and Vienna malts for base malt instead of straight Pils
  • Mash was 149 for about 90 minutes
  • Yeast was a blend of one vial WLP300 and 3/4 packet rehydrated Fermentis WB06 Probably could have used even less, or ditched using it altogether with this beer
  • I oxygentated the wort with Oxygen injection in the carboy for one minute and rocked it hard
  • VERY active fermentation within 12 hours. Fermented at 63 degrees for 8 days and kegged it

I did not take an OG or FG reading. Tried to take an OG but didn't save enough wort during runoff.
The beer is quite dry and slightly tart with aroma of banana but hardly any flavor of it. Very little if any clove or bubble gum. It's a little thin as well. It's drinkable but not balanced quite the way I would like.

I'm thinking due to the tartness of the yeast ( the WB06 from what I gather) and the low mash temp making the beer pretty dry, next time I should shoot for a mash in the mid 150's and cut some of my bittering IBU to balance it a bit better. Additionally I'd like a bit more banana and bubble gum out of it but that's not as critical. My wife likes it and it is quite drinkable and light so I'm sure I'll have a chance to try brewing it again before long.

Thanks to those who contributed
Growing Centennial, Columbus and Chinook hops.
Brewing IPA, APA, Dead Guy clone, and American Wheat most of the time.
Located in Three Rivers MI

Offline beersk

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Re: Heffeweizen WLP300 with Briess 2Row brewers malt
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2013, 01:05:26 PM »
The salt additions you added were probably fine, soft water is good for hefes. Mashing low and the beer drying out are probably what caused the thin mouth feel.  Unless that's a pH issue...doesn't high mash pH cause a bigger mouth feel or do I have that backwards? Or does that matter at all?
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