Author Topic: timing a lager D-rest  (Read 2693 times)

Offline denny

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timing a lager D-rest
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2013, 11:12:42 AM »
good info from everyone. seems like we are all on the same page. it just seemed odd to me to hear people do a d-rest after 2 weeks at 50F...seems all activity would be done and there would be nothing gained from doing a d-rest then (considering a normal lager range around 1.050-055). maybe for bigger beers over 1.060 there would still be fermentation activity near the 2 week mark - i just haven't done a lager that big.

As long as you don't remove the yeast from the beer, it doesn't matter if all activity has ended.  Warming the beer for the d rest will make it active again.
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: timing a lager D-rest
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2013, 11:15:19 AM »
good info from everyone. seems like we are all on the same page. it just seemed odd to me to hear people do a d-rest after 2 weeks at 50F...seems all activity would be done and there would be nothing gained from doing a d-rest then (considering a normal lager range around 1.050-055). maybe for bigger beers over 1.060 there would still be fermentation activity near the 2 week mark - i just haven't done a lager that big.

As long as you don't remove the yeast from the beer, it doesn't matter if all activity has ended.  Warming the beer for the d rest will make it active again.

+1.  You may get a little extra attenuation as well as was previously stated.

Dave
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: timing a lager D-rest
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2013, 12:10:47 PM »
The yeast should run the brewery, not the calendar. I take samples off of the raking arm in the conical. When the beer has about 2 Plato to go, it gets ramped up in the D-rest. This is in the 4-6 day range for a 1.050 lager. 2 days at higher temp and it is done. Taste it to be sure.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: timing a lager D-rest
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2013, 12:37:15 PM »
good info from everyone. seems like we are all on the same page. it just seemed odd to me to hear people do a d-rest after 2 weeks at 50F...seems all activity would be done and there would be nothing gained from doing a d-rest then (considering a normal lager range around 1.050-055). maybe for bigger beers over 1.060 there would still be fermentation activity near the 2 week mark - i just haven't done a lager that big.

As long as you don't remove the yeast from the beer, it doesn't matter if all activity has ended.  Warming the beer for the d rest will make it active again.

ok good to know. but then whats the difference in doing a d-rest at 80-85% attenuation , vs. 99-100% attenuation ? any benefit of one over the other

Offline denny

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timing a lager D-rest
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2013, 12:50:33 PM »
good info from everyone. seems like we are all on the same page. it just seemed odd to me to hear people do a d-rest after 2 weeks at 50F...seems all activity would be done and there would be nothing gained from doing a d-rest then (considering a normal lager range around 1.050-055). maybe for bigger beers over 1.060 there would still be fermentation activity near the 2 week mark - i just haven't done a lager that big.

As long as you don't remove the yeast from the beer, it doesn't matter if all activity has ended.  Warming the beer for the d rest will make it active again.

ok good to know. but then whats the difference in doing a d-rest at 80-85% attenuation , vs. 99-100% attenuation ? any benefit of one over the other

In my opinion and experience, no difference and no benefit.  AFAIK, the recommendation to do the rest earlier comes from commercial practices to speed up the process.  Fortunately, we're homebrewers.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: timing a lager D-rest
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2013, 12:58:18 PM »
good info from everyone. seems like we are all on the same page. it just seemed odd to me to hear people do a d-rest after 2 weeks at 50F...seems all activity would be done and there would be nothing gained from doing a d-rest then (considering a normal lager range around 1.050-055). maybe for bigger beers over 1.060 there would still be fermentation activity near the 2 week mark - i just haven't done a lager that big.

As long as you don't remove the yeast from the beer, it doesn't matter if all activity has ended.  Warming the beer for the d rest will make it active again.

ok good to know. but then whats the difference in doing a d-rest at 80-85% attenuation , vs. 99-100% attenuation ? any benefit of one over the other

In my opinion and experience, no difference and no benefit.  AFAIK, the recommendation to do the rest earlier comes from commercial practices to speed up the process.  Fortunately, we're homebrewers.

ha! love it denny - always get down an dirty answer from you.  ;D

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: timing a lager D-rest
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2013, 01:17:43 PM »
good info from everyone. seems like we are all on the same page. it just seemed odd to me to hear people do a d-rest after 2 weeks at 50F...seems all activity would be done and there would be nothing gained from doing a d-rest then (considering a normal lager range around 1.050-055). maybe for bigger beers over 1.060 there would still be fermentation activity near the 2 week mark - i just haven't done a lager that big.

As long as you don't remove the yeast from the beer, it doesn't matter if all activity has ended.  Warming the beer for the d rest will make it active again.

ok good to know. but then whats the difference in doing a d-rest at 80-85% attenuation , vs. 99-100% attenuation ? any benefit of one over the other
If you do it at 80%, the yeast will finish the sugars and be active to reduce the VDKs. The increased activity will help scrub off sulfur. Then you can crash down to cold temps to lager and drop out the haze and yeast. The classic profile has a slow cooling to keep the yeast working, as they will slowly reduce the VDKs at low temperature. 

So you clean it up, blow off sulfur and save time. If you are a homebrewer that brews lagers when the weather allows, saving time in the fermenter is a good thing. Might have to get another freezer someday so I can do lagers in the summer.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: timing a lager D-rest
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2013, 01:39:23 PM »
good info from everyone. seems like we are all on the same page. it just seemed odd to me to hear people do a d-rest after 2 weeks at 50F...seems all activity would be done and there would be nothing gained from doing a d-rest then (considering a normal lager range around 1.050-055). maybe for bigger beers over 1.060 there would still be fermentation activity near the 2 week mark - i just haven't done a lager that big.

As long as you don't remove the yeast from the beer, it doesn't matter if all activity has ended.  Warming the beer for the d rest will make it active again.

ok good to know. but then whats the difference in doing a d-rest at 80-85% attenuation , vs. 99-100% attenuation ? any benefit of one over the other
If you do it at 80%, the yeast will finish the sugars and be active to reduce the VDKs. The increased activity will help scrub off sulfur. Then you can crash down to cold temps to lager and drop out the haze and yeast. The classic profile has a slow cooling to keep the yeast working, as they will slowly reduce the VDKs at low temperature. 

So you clean it up, blow off sulfur and save time. If you are a homebrewer that brews lagers when the weather allows, saving time in the fermenter is a good thing. Might have to get another freezer someday so I can do lagers in the summer.

awesome info guys -another productive day at the forum.

i feel like i should be paying someone - who should i make the check out to? ;D
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 03:06:32 PM by wort-h.o.g. »

Offline denny

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timing a lager D-rest
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2013, 02:11:03 PM »
good info from everyone. seems like we are all on the same page. it just seemed odd to me to hear people do a d-rest after 2 weeks at 50F...seems all activity would be done and there would be nothing gained from doing a d-rest then (considering a normal lager range around 1.050-055). maybe for bigger beers over 1.060 there would still be fermentation activity near the 2 week mark - i just haven't done a lager that big.

As long as you don't remove the yeast from the beer, it doesn't matter if all activity has ended.  Warming the beer for the d rest will make it active again.

ok good to know. but then whats the difference in doing a d-rest at 80-85% attenuation , vs. 99-100% attenuation ? any benefit of one over the other
If you do it at 80%, the yeast will finish the sugars and be active to reduce the VDKs. The increased activity will help scrub off sulfur. Then you can crash down to cold temps to lager and drop out the haze and yeast. The classic profile has a slow cooling to keep the yeast working, as they will slowly reduce the VDKs at low temperature. 

So you clean it up, blow off sulfur and save time. If you are a homebrewer that brews lagers when the weather allows, saving time in the fermenter is a good thing. Might have to get another freezer someday so I can do lagers in the summer.

awesome info guys -another productive day at the forum.

i feel like i should be paying someone - who should i make  ;Dthe check out to?

Me, of course!  ;)
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: timing a lager D-rest
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2013, 03:10:11 PM »
good info from everyone. seems like we are all on the same page. it just seemed odd to me to hear people do a d-rest after 2 weeks at 50F...seems all activity would be done and there would be nothing gained from doing a d-rest then (considering a normal lager range around 1.050-055). maybe for bigger beers over 1.060 there would still be fermentation activity near the 2 week mark - i just haven't done a lager that big.

As long as you don't remove the yeast from the beer, it doesn't matter if all activity has ended.  Warming the beer for the d rest will make it active again.

ok good to know. but then whats the difference in doing a d-rest at 80-85% attenuation , vs. 99-100% attenuation ? any benefit of one over the other
If you do it at 80%, the yeast will finish the sugars and be active to reduce the VDKs. The increased activity will help scrub off sulfur. Then you can crash down to cold temps to lager and drop out the haze and yeast. The classic profile has a slow cooling to keep the yeast working, as they will slowly reduce the VDKs at low temperature. 

So you clean it up, blow off sulfur and save time. If you are a homebrewer that brews lagers when the weather allows, saving time in the fermenter is a good thing. Might have to get another freezer someday so I can do lagers in the summer.

awesome info guys -another productive day at the forum.

i feel like i should be paying someone - who should i make  ;Dthe check out to?

Me, of course!  ;)

Done!  seriously, my lagers have improved significantly since my schooling with you - much thanks bud. i also think i would be a very tough judge when it comes to diacetyl - my olfactory senses pick up the slightest trace, and as i've said before, i cant stand it.

Offline denny

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timing a lager D-rest
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2013, 03:18:51 PM »
good info from everyone. seems like we are all on the same page. it just seemed odd to me to hear people do a d-rest after 2 weeks at 50F...seems all activity would be done and there would be nothing gained from doing a d-rest then (considering a normal lager range around 1.050-055). maybe for bigger beers over 1.060 there would still be fermentation activity near the 2 week mark - i just haven't done a lager that big.

As long as you don't remove the yeast from the beer, it doesn't matter if all activity has ended.  Warming the beer for the d rest will make it active again.

ok good to know. but then whats the difference in doing a d-rest at 80-85% attenuation , vs. 99-100% attenuation ? any benefit of one over the other
If you do it at 80%, the yeast will finish the sugars and be active to reduce the VDKs. The increased activity will help scrub off sulfur. Then you can crash down to cold temps to lager and drop out the haze and yeast. The classic profile has a slow cooling to keep the yeast working, as they will slowly reduce the VDKs at low temperature. 

So you clean it up, blow off sulfur and save time. If you are a homebrewer that brews lagers when the weather allows, saving time in the fermenter is a good thing. Might have to get another freezer someday so I can do lagers in the summer.

awesome info guys -another productive day at the forum.

i feel like i should be paying someone - who should i make  ;Dthe check out to?

Me, of course!  ;)

Done!  seriously, my lagers have improved significantly since my schooling with you - much thanks bud. i also think i would be a very tough judge when it comes to diacetyl - my olfactory senses pick up the slightest trace, and as i've said before, i cant stand it.

Man, that's both a blessing and a curse!  I usually get a slickness on the roof of my mouth before I can taste it.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline davidgzach

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Re: timing a lager D-rest
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2013, 05:51:42 AM »
good info from everyone. seems like we are all on the same page. it just seemed odd to me to hear people do a d-rest after 2 weeks at 50F...seems all activity would be done and there would be nothing gained from doing a d-rest then (considering a normal lager range around 1.050-055). maybe for bigger beers over 1.060 there would still be fermentation activity near the 2 week mark - i just haven't done a lager that big.

As long as you don't remove the yeast from the beer, it doesn't matter if all activity has ended.  Warming the beer for the d rest will make it active again.

ok good to know. but then whats the difference in doing a d-rest at 80-85% attenuation , vs. 99-100% attenuation ? any benefit of one over the other
If you do it at 80%, the yeast will finish the sugars and be active to reduce the VDKs. The increased activity will help scrub off sulfur. Then you can crash down to cold temps to lager and drop out the haze and yeast. The classic profile has a slow cooling to keep the yeast working, as they will slowly reduce the VDKs at low temperature. 

So you clean it up, blow off sulfur and save time. If you are a homebrewer that brews lagers when the weather allows, saving time in the fermenter is a good thing. Might have to get another freezer someday so I can do lagers in the summer.

That's a good synopsis Jeff.  I was lucky to have my bro-in-law donate a chest freezer to the cause.  I have 4x5G in there at all times at 50F.   Mostly German Lagers.  I brew 10G on Saturday and Sunday, typically raise to 65F for 3 days after a week and then reduce 5F per day to 32F.  I'll leave them on the cake for 3 weeks, then keg and lager in a separate fridge.  My wife has been very kind to let me have two appliances in the garage solely for brewing.  I store all of my bulk hops in the top freezer of the lagering fridge and all of my washed yeast in the door compartments.  Works out real well and I can brew lagers year round.  You've got to get that freezer!
Dave Zach