Author Topic: West Sixth vs Magic Hat  (Read 4932 times)

Offline MDixon

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2013, 06:33:50 AM »
Maybe posting a side by side of the logos with the West Sixth Brewing logo inverted will help.

Perhaps someone can explain how they look similar other than the blob at the bottom of the 9 and top of the 6? The 6 is closed and has different line weights than the 9 which is not closed. The dingbat on the 9 is a dingbat and the 6 is a star and the colors are different. I just don't see how the two can be confused. Good on West Sixth for not caving to the pressure.

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Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2013, 07:10:48 AM »
Doesn't look anything like it to me. Line weight is different. 9 doesn't connect the loop, I would never mistake the two.
Three dominant graphic elements -  The font is nearly identical. The green is within the color pallette Magic Hat normally uses. And many Magic Hat logos use a starburst. I wouldn't confuse it with the #9 label specifically, but if I saw that label from a distance I'd probably think it was Magic Hat one-off. 
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Offline brewmichigan

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2013, 07:56:44 AM »
I believe the star in the west sixth logo is actually a compass rose and because the "6" is on the left side, it makes it the West side.

I agree that they are similar but I would never accidentally pick this up instead of Magic hat. If I did, I'd probably be better off and maybe that's why their worried.  :P
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2013, 09:10:52 AM »
The article in the original post is quite misleading.

I was sent this by another club member: http://www.scribd.com/doc/142860493/Magic-Hat-Brewing-and-West-Sixth-Brewing

West Sixth Brewing has been in discussions with Magic Hat for a while on changing their logo. For West Sixth to publish something that misleading is shiesty in my book. I have zero sympathy for West Sixth Brewing.

I also don't drink Magic Hat (especially #9) because it is pretty bad. So no bias towards either brewery here, just callin' it like I see it.

Edit: here's some more research...
http://beerpulse.com/2013/05/magic-hat-calls-bs-on-west-sixths-media-campaign-after-lawsuit-407/
and this
http://beerpulse.com/2013/05/west-sixth-rebukes-magic-hats-public-response-publicly-proposes-settlement/

Sounds a lot like West Sixth is trying to make it seem like the 'big bad wolf' is beating up on them when their logos are really quite similar. If a distributor declines to carry a brand because it looks to similar to another, they might be on to something.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 09:24:13 AM by AmandaK »
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Offline tonyp

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2013, 09:22:55 AM »
The mere fact that you have to explain and manipulate the images in order to show how similiar they are works in West Sixth's favor. The typefaces are nowhere near identical and I think most of you are getting caught up in the idea of "hey, a 6 is just an upsidedown 9 right?!". They are about as similar as a shark is to a dolphin. Sure they both have tails and fins and swim in the ocean but that's where it ends.

I'm not a lawyer, but as a designer, I would jump at the chance to argue this in court infront of a jury. I would take a laptop, hook it up to a nice big LCD screen or projector and using photoshop, go thru the steps it would take to convert one logo into the other, finishing with <sarcasm>And that's all you have to do to make them similar.</sarcasm>.

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P.S. I think one contentious point could be the star symbol but it seems more ornamental in Mag Hat's case and more part of the story or theme in West Sixth's.
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Offline nateo

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2013, 09:26:07 AM »
I read a news article from 2 years ago where commenters noted the similarities in the logos. It takes a pretty big lapse of judgement to think having a logo so similar, even if "legal," is a good idea.
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2013, 09:29:38 AM »
I read a news article from 2 years ago where commenters noted the similarities in the logos. It takes a pretty big lapse of judgement to think having a logo so similar, even if "legal," is a good idea.

Exactly. We should keep in mind that this logo is interpreted by the general public, not graphic designers.

In the articles I posted above, a Kentucky distributor refused to carry the brand because the logo was so similar to the other.
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Offline tonyp

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2013, 09:33:33 AM »

Edit: here's some more research...
http://beerpulse.com/2013/05/magic-hat-calls-bs-on-west-sixths-media-campaign-after-lawsuit-407/

Quote
In letters proposing a resolution to avoid a court case, West Sixth Brewing agreed to:

1. Remove the design element that mirrors Magic Hat’s #9 starburst/dingbat star packaging;

See now this is an important point that wasn't in West Sixth's blog post. Like I said in my last post I could see this being a problem, and its easily fixed.

If West Sixth's intentions were for the star to be a compass point you could scale it to fill the entire bg of the circle turning the whole logo into a compass.

Quote
2. Use and promote the wording West Sixth Brewing in conjunction with the design (Magic Hat agrees that this will help eliminate confusion);

3. Work in good faith to phase out and replace any existing materials that may contain the prior version of the encircled “6” design;

These 2 are absolutely ridiculous to me, nowhere on Magic Hat's packaging is there a 9 in a circle. If all those abstract wavy lines are considered a circle they need their heads examined.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2013, 09:38:37 AM »
I read a news article from 2 years ago where commenters noted the similarities in the logos. It takes a pretty big lapse of judgement to think having a logo so similar, even if "legal," is a good idea.
+1.  I also feel that whoever mistakenly buys it thinking it is Magic Hat is probably getting a better beer.
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Offline duboman

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West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2013, 12:42:33 PM »
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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2013, 01:06:19 PM »
Sounds a lot like West Sixth is trying to make it seem like the 'big bad wolf' is beating up on them when their logos are really quite similar.

I'd do the same thing, albeit without the lying. Just think of how many thousands of people have heard of West Sixth now.
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Offline MDixon

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2013, 01:35:39 PM »
Hold on a second, let's pick apart carefully where you guys are seeing West Sixth lied about anything.

They said:
"In fact, we tried to reach out to them individually to see if there was any way to resolve the amicably, but to no surprise, no one ever called us back."

I've seen a bunch of legal documents from some Kentucky Law firm and a lawsuit from a TN law firm, but nada from anyone in Vermont or New York. So I'm having a hard time finding the lie.

I'd also like to see the article from 2 years ago concerning the logo. I though the firm started doing business in April 2012 so I'm scratching my head about an article showing similarity from 2011??? Clue me in.
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Offline nateo

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2013, 01:39:27 PM »
I've seen a bunch of legal documents from some Kentucky Law firm and a lawsuit from a TN law firm, but nada from anyone in Vermont or New York. So I'm having a hard time finding the lie.

I'd also like to see the article from 2 years ago concerning the logo. I though the firm started doing business in April 2012 so I'm scratching my head about an article showing similarity from 2011??? Clue me in.

First of all, if you're a corporation, and you have a law firm on retainer, you don't contact people directly. That's what your lawyers are for. So saying they haven't heard anything from them sounds like a lie to me.

Here's the article I read, the people in the comments noticed the similarity:
http://louisvillebeer.com/blog/2011/10/05/695/
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Offline MDixon

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2013, 01:50:05 PM »
Did a little research on the person who made the comment. Seems like he has a beer blog and one of his buddies works (or worked) at Magic Hat based on his comments.
http://kentuckybrewreview.wordpress.com/2010/12/12/hops-for-the-holidays/

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« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 01:53:26 PM by MDixon »
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Offline nateo

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2013, 01:57:57 PM »
I think the Scribd link Amanda posted covers this issue pretty well. Magic Hat has no problem with West Sixth using the "6 with star" logo as long as they consistently use the words "West Sixth Brewing" as well.

There are really two issues here, copyright, and trademark infringement. The standard for copyright infringement is "substantial similarity," while the standard for trademark infringement is "likelihood of consumer confusion." Consumer confusion increases when the two companies are in the same industry, selling the same goods.

True, these are subjective issues, and who knows how the court will rule, but do you really want to spend a fortune arguing these issues in court? The logo isn't even that good. . .

Here's a quote from Judge Learned Hand “no plagiarist can excuse the wrong by showing how much of his work he did not pirate.”
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 02:05:01 PM by nateo »
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