Author Topic: West Sixth vs Magic Hat  (Read 4940 times)

Offline MDixon

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2013, 02:05:35 PM »
I read all the legal documents and in the end it appeared MH was never going to allow them to use a 6 without the words beside it and as far as I could tell they did not want to allow them to use up existing merchandise and can stock. They kept giving 30 day ultimatums. If it were me I would have fought it tooth and nail and would have enjoyed spending the money to fight it, but I'm scrappy like that. ;)
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Offline a10t2

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2013, 02:08:56 PM »
Hold on a second, let's pick apart carefully where you guys are seeing West Sixth lied about anything.

Quote
And this week, one of those enemies got so mad, they decided to try and force us out of business by filing a silly and frivolous lawsuit against us.

This is actually what I was thinking of when I used the word "lying", but upon careful re-reading it walks the line of implying something that is incorrect (that this lawsuit is out of the blue) without actually saying anything demonstrably untrue - though saying that Magic Hat's objective is to put West Sixth out of business strikes me as unfair, and certainly unprovable. Just my opinion, of course.

Quote
We know that as a company owned by an international conglomerate, the only value Magic Hat will listen to is their pocketbook, so that’s the only way we know to get them to stop.

Emphasis mine. They were corresponding with Magic Hat's attorneys beginning at least eight months ago regarding a solution that didn't involve litigation. To say now that an internet petition is the only solution they know of to stop the lawsuit is a lie.
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Offline MDixon

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2013, 02:13:36 PM »
I still cannot see any lie. They tried to reach and agreement, but MH or their lawyers, were never agreeable, it was always another stipulation if you read the documents. Then MH filed a lawsuit so they went to social media and it appears to have brought MH back to the table. Seems more like the truth to me...YMMV

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Offline nateo

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2013, 02:17:54 PM »
Part of the problem is with the way trademark law works in the US. If you don't defend your trademark vigorously, you can lose it.
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Offline dbeechum

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2013, 04:27:00 PM »
I have my opinions on this whole thing, but this is the important lesson.

http://drinkwiththewench.com/2013/05/breweries-keep-your-legal-battles-off-of-social-media/
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Offline nateo

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2013, 04:29:45 PM »
I've read some studies that show talking s*** about someone only sometimes makes the talked-about person look bad, but always makes you look bad. I think the blog Drew linked to is exactly right.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2013, 07:14:15 PM »
But it worked in Vermont with Vermonster!!!
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Offline majorvices

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2013, 05:44:16 AM »
As a graphic designer of over 20 years, I can assure you that those two logos are way too close and MH is going to win this law suit. I once got a cease and desist order direct from Harley Davidson's attorney. Highlight of my graphics career, trust me. ;) But all the attorney has to do is show the judge that the two logos can be mistaken as related to each other and the plaintiff wins the case. Sure, If I could have afforded a high dollar attorney I could have made a case. BUt me against HD? Not a chance.

Same story here. And if you don't think those logos are eerily similar you are looking at them through you a$%*H*((.... just sayin....
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Offline MDixon

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2013, 06:23:31 AM »
Maybe it's the engineer in me, but I still don't see it. From what I've noticed those with an artistic background see some resemblance (seems to be about 20% of the people), the rest know the difference between a 6 and a 9.  ;)

- -

What I find interesting is an email I got in my brewing news email this morning. Magic Hat said yesterday they were no longer going to comment on social media, but then they send out a press release which includes:
Quote
It is our position that West Sixth has not only infringed on our trademarks, but has also taken steps to damage our brand.
So we won't comment on Facebook, but an email campaign is fine???
The really interesting thing about the note is this is the first email I have ever received from Magic Hat and their marketing group - Mower.

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Offline majorvices

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2013, 06:39:44 AM »
Maybe it's the engineer in me...

I absolutely agree that's a problem. ;)
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2013, 07:29:14 AM »
I have my opinions on this whole thing, but this is the important lesson.

http://drinkwiththewench.com/2013/05/breweries-keep-your-legal-battles-off-of-social-media/

Exactly. West Sixth had obviously tried to use us as ammunition in damaging Magic Hat's brand. It's ridiculous.
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2013, 07:32:40 AM »
Maybe it's the engineer in me, but I still don't see it. From what I've noticed those with an artistic background see some resemblance (seems to be about 20% of the people), the rest know the difference between a 6 and a 9.  ;)

I'm an engineer. I see it. And I can totally see why some people might think that a logo with only the six and no brewery name next to it might be another offering from Magic Hat.
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Offline nateo

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2013, 07:52:09 AM »
The issue is not the numerals. I'm really sick of people saying I'm dense because I can't tell the difference between a 6 and a 9. I can read, obviously, and I'm not dyslexic. I know it sounds like a slam-dunk legal case to say only an idiot would confuse a 6 and a 9, but I doubt a judge would agree.

The issue is those design elements which make the respective logos distinctive. The fact that they're different numbers or letters is not relevant. For example, you can't just take the IBM-style lettering, change the letters, and use that for your logo.
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Offline majorvices

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West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2013, 07:57:48 AM »
Yeah, the point isn't that people know the difference between a 6 and a 9, it's how confusable the identity of the brands are. I highly doubt the defending brewery in question legitimately tried to copy MH design (though, if the designer didn't do it intentionally, he/she most certainly did it subliminally. I have caught myself doing this often. Design something, then realize it looks a lot like another design I had not intended to copy.)

It's not going to matter what 20% of the people think, or that MH makes crappy beer. All that is going to matter is what the attorney shows the judge - and any high dollar attorney worth his salt will easily be able to prove a case here that these brand logos are confusable. 
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Offline MDixon

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Re: West Sixth vs Magic Hat
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2013, 08:04:17 AM »
FWIW - I never said anyone was dense, I said they were artistic.  ;D

Actually the lawsuit calls for a jury trial. So they would have to convince a jury. Not sure how many sit on a Federal Jury, but if I was one of the jurors we'd probably deadlock.  :-\
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