Author Topic: German Pils - hop and malt questions  (Read 2244 times)

Offline gmac

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German Pils - hop and malt questions
« on: June 03, 2013, 10:32:40 AM »
I'm going to do a 20 gal batch of German pilsner (or as close as I can get) but I've got a couple questions.  I was thinking of the following:

30 lbs Weyerman Pils
5 lbs Vienna malt
75 g Magnum @ 60
100 g Hallertau @ 10
WLP Mexican Lager yeast (3 vials pitched to a 5 gal generic "lager" for a starter then all of the yeast harvested for this beer.  I'm sure that some would suggest 830 or 833 but I like the Mexican Lager, seems very clean in the few lagers I've made.)
I'm looking for a crisp beer that fits into the upper end of the bitterness range, maybe in the 35 IBU area.
My usual efficiency is about 80% although I've not done 20 gals at once before. 
Water is planned to be 1/2 RO and 1/2 tap.  My tap is fairly hard although I don't have actual #'s in front of me. 

My questions are:  Will the Vienna make it too sweet?  I don't have Munich on hand so I'm going with the Vienna unless you all talk me out of it.  The other option is 100% pils (I have cara-pils and C15 on hand but I assume crystal has no place in a pils).  I am looking for a bit of complexity which is why I would add Munich if I had it on hand.

Are the finishing hops enough?  Should I mix them up with other hops or do more additions.  I have Tettnang and some older Saaz on hand.  Was considering 50/50 Hallertau/Tettnang at 10 and maybe the same amount again at flameout. 

Offline dordway29

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Re: German Pils - hop and malt questions
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2013, 10:48:57 AM »
I think the recipe looks fine. Not sure what the AA% on your magnum are but that should get you where you want. The vienna isn't a bad idea, I had a friend use pilsner with a touch of ashburne mild. Turned out great. The mexican lager is also great and is not used often enough. Stick with the hallertau.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: German Pils - hop and malt questions
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2013, 10:50:23 AM »
Nothing wrong with 100% pils. Some say to use a couple of maltsters to get some complexity.

35 to 38 IBU is good. If you want crisp and dry, use the water for pils on braukaiser.com, Ca=59 , SO4=89 , Cl=63 from memory, so check it, and no alkalinity so I build from RO.

I do like to use late hoping for my Pilsners. A fair amount at 30, 15, 10. Tettnanger is very  good in these, and so is Saaz.

If you want clean 940 is the way to go.
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Offline denny

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Re: German Pils - hop and malt questions
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2013, 10:52:43 AM »
I use just under 10% Munich in mine.  I wouldn't recommend going any more than that with Vienna.  Hops look good.  I usually shoot for more like 40-45 IBU, but that's personal preference.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: German Pils - hop and malt questions
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2013, 11:55:02 AM »
Nothing wrong with 100% pils. Some say to use a couple of maltsters to get some complexity.

35 to 38 IBU is good. If you want crisp and dry, use the water for pils on braukaiser.com, Ca=59 , SO4=89 , Cl=63 from memory, so check it, and no alkalinity so I build from RO.

I do like to use late hoping for my Pilsners. A fair amount at 30, 15, 10. Tettnanger is very  good in these, and so is Saaz.

If you want clean 940 is the way to go.

+1 to 100% Pils

We used about 36 IBU's on a Pils this past weekend.

Water: Ca=100, Mg=7.5, Na=30, SO4=150, Cl=75, HCO3=75 from my memory.

For 11 gallons:
First wort hop with 8AAU Saaz
16AAU Hallertau Mittelfruh @ 60min
12AAU Hallertau Mittelfruh @ 1min
8AAU Saaz @ flameout

I like to blend Saaz with Hallertau for finishing hops. They also a provide a relatively smooth bitterness.

Yeast: WLP830

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Offline redbeerman

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Re: German Pils - hop and malt questions
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2013, 11:58:47 AM »
I usually shoot for more like 40-45 IBU, but that's personal preference.

Hop burnout  ;)
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: German Pils - hop and malt questions
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2013, 01:26:04 PM »
I would go with all Pils and bump up the IBU's to 40-45.  Hallertau at 5-10 and Saaz at flameout and/or dry hop.

Dave
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Offline Pinski

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Re: German Pils - hop and malt questions
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2013, 02:28:03 PM »
MMmmmm.... Pils+Mittelfruh+Saaz...~5.5% ~40 IBU= :)
Thank you BEER!

Offline mabrungard

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Re: German Pils - hop and malt questions
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2013, 02:39:38 PM »
FYI

Jever, Germany water profile:

Ca: 60   
Mg: 5   
Na: 15   
SO4: 75   
Cl: 30   
HCO3: 105

The alkalinity would have to be neutralized for use in a G Pils, but the sodium, chloride, and sulfate levels give you an idea of an appropriate balance and intensity for those ions.
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Offline gmac

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Re: German Pils - hop and malt questions
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2013, 03:20:57 PM »
Oh no...water. I've been hoping to avoid that topic for a few more years.
I have to get a water test done for our new place so I'm gonna wing it this time but I will be back later with water questions.

I thought a recent thread advised against dry hopping with Saaz. I will add some Saaz to the
Hallertau and also add some Hallertau FWH as well to get up nearer 45 IBU. Just thought I'd go with Magnum to get the bitterness without so much hop mass.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: German Pils - hop and malt questions
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2013, 04:34:07 PM »
FYI

Jever, Germany water profile:

Ca: 60   
Mg: 5   
Na: 15   
SO4: 75   
Cl: 30   
HCO3: 105

The alkalinity would have to be neutralized for use in a G Pils, but the sodium, chloride, and sulfate levels give you an idea of an appropriate balance and intensity for those ions.
Great information, Martin. We used to drink Jever when we lived in Wiesbaden Germany, and it always had a dry finish with some mineral bite at the end. That was in '98-99, and the last time back in Germany 2012, Jever had lost a bunch of that. IBUs are in the 35 range now from what I have read. Makes me sad.
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: German Pils - hop and malt questions
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2013, 04:38:50 AM »
I thought a recent thread advised against dry hopping with Saaz.

One person's opinion.  There is nothing wrong with dry hopping with Saaz.  My BoPils made it through regionals with a big Saaz dry hop.

Dave
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Offline redzim

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Re: German Pils - hop and malt questions
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2013, 11:37:51 AM »
FYI

Jever, Germany water profile:

Ca: 60   
Mg: 5   
Na: 15   
SO4: 75   
Cl: 30   
HCO3: 105

The alkalinity would have to be neutralized for use in a G Pils, but the sodium, chloride, and sulfate levels give you an idea of an appropriate balance and intensity for those ions.
Great information, Martin. We used to drink Jever when we lived in Wiesbaden Germany, and it always had a dry finish with some mineral bite at the end. That was in '98-99, and the last time back in Germany 2012, Jever had lost a bunch of that. IBUs are in the 35 range now from what I have read. Makes me sad.

Hands-down my favorite German Pils.  I'm on iteration #5 of a clone based on a recipe from you Jeff, but I've tweaked the hops a bunch. Will be drinking it in about 3 weeks. If it's any good I can post some results/info.

Water was Ca 50, Mg 10, SO4 100, Cl 45.. basically Martin's Yellow Bitter profile.

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Offline AmandaK

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Re: German Pils - hop and malt questions
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2013, 10:20:03 AM »
Nothing wrong with 100% pils. Some say to use a couple of maltsters to get some complexity.

Interesting... I had never thought of that before. Perhaps I blend Best Malz and Weyermann? <drool>
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: German Pils - hop and malt questions
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2013, 10:33:21 AM »
Nothing wrong with 100% pils. Some say to use a couple of maltsters to get some complexity.

Interesting... I had never thought of that before. Perhaps I blend Best Malz and Weyermann? <drool>
That would be one way.
I need to get a bag of Durst Pils and blend with the Weyermann I have on hand.
Jeff Rankert
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