Author Topic: ESB water profile ?  (Read 7042 times)

Offline quattlebaum

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ESB water profile ?
« on: June 11, 2013, 04:14:06 AM »
So any suggestions on a the Ca, Sulfide and CL amounts for a ESB. I am wanting to bring out the "maltiness" and also have the bitterness. So i am thinking 140 CA, 135 CL and 100 Sulfide. Ph will be 5.4

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout -
Recipe: Old Speckled Hen
Brewer: Quattlebaum
Asst Brewer:
Style: Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
Boil Size: 8.60 gal
Post Boil Volume: 7.80 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal   
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 7.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 45.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 106.2 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
7 lbs 15.1 oz         Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Floor malted) (3 Grain         1        80.3 %       
15.7 oz               Crystal Malt - 55L (Bairds) (60.0 SRM)   Grain         2        9.9 %         
13.2 oz               Lyle's Golden Syrup (0.0 SRM)            Extract       3        8.3 %         
2.4 oz                Dememera Sugar (2.0 SRM)                 Sugar         4        1.5 %         
1.90 oz               Northern Brewer [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop           5        40.0 IBUs     
0.54 oz               Goldings, East Kent [5.70 %] - Boil 15.0 Hop           6        4.0 IBUs     
0.34 oz               Goldings, East Kent [5.70 %] - Boil 5.0  Hop           7        1.0 IBUs     
1.0 pkg               Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35 Yeast         8        -             

Mash Schedule: (208) Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out, Fly
Total Grain Weight: 9 lbs 14.3 oz
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Mash In           Add 4.09 gal of water at 164.6 F        154.0 F       60 min       

Sparge: Fly sparge with 5.77 gal water at 168.0 F

Offline mabrungard

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Re: ESB water profile ?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2013, 12:10:50 PM »
Well, I hope you don't want sulfide in your beer.  That would be nasty.  I suggest that sulfate would be much better.  Even with that correction, you have the recipe for minerally taste that could overshadow the malt flavor you want. 

The chloride level is far too high.  I suggest that something around 50 ppm would be better.  A sulfate level in the 100 ppm range would help dry the beer somewhat while not overdoing it.  I prefer more sulfate, but it is personal preference.  I suggest that a modest sodium level (less than 20 ppm) will also help promote that maltiness and roundness that you desire.  With these changes, the calcium level would not need to be as high as originally indicated.  It looks like the Ca level could be in the 60 ppm range.  You don't need more than that.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: ESB water profile ?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2013, 02:17:29 PM »
There was a "Can You Brew It" podcast that covered Fullers. Head brewer John Keeling talks about the water treatment they do for a little. Can't remember all he said. On the brewery tour they point out that they use London tap water, and it is Burtonized using Gypsum, and the stack of gypsum bags is seen near the HLT.

You can also look this up. Should be online if you are an AHA member.
 "Secrets of Brewing ESB" by John Keeling,  Zymurgy September/October 2008 (Volume 31, Issue 5)
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
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Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline quattlebaum

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Re: ESB water profile ?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2013, 01:32:26 AM »
Oops:). Ya sulfate:). Interesting you say you'll get a minerally taste. I am not quite competent enough on adjusting my water however I have been doing such for a year now. My main intentions are to get my mash PH down being that my base h2o is 8.1. I have to cut it a lot and add salts. In general I adjust my PH to 5.4 to 5.6 by cutting my water and using 88% lactic. I then use EZ water cal to either increase my sulfate to greater than 100 or 150 for a crisp hop characteristic with a balanced CL/sulfate ratio or increase the CL to balance it towards a "malty" character. I do wonder frequently about if it really makes a difference with adding salts.  My gut is saying just get the mash PH to a range for good conversion 5.4-5.6 and leave the rest to nature. Any suggestions on how to proceed with this mythical thing called water for homebrewers ? 
This is my water:  ca 66, mg 20, Na 27,  CL 18,  So4 36 and bicarbonate 262 

And thanks for the article reference i will read that:)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 01:43:43 AM by quattlebaum »

Offline quattlebaum

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Re: ESB water profile ?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2013, 03:10:52 AM »
Ok did a little reading. What ya think now? PH 5.41   CA 83, NA 16 , CL 51, So4 106 CL/So4 ratio is .48 with may increase bitter.  I just want that maltiness to shine through a little more and still have that nice ESB/bitter characteristic.    I cant wait until Palmer and Kaminskis water book comes out hoping it will make me understand a little more. Much appreciated fellas 

Offline rapurcell85

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Re: ESB water profile ?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2013, 01:13:48 AM »
I also like a little more sulfate in an ESB.  I just brewed an ESB that I really enjoyed with 104 ppm Ca, 70 ppm Na, 44 ppm Cl, and 210 ppm SO4.  However, I also like a little more of the hop bitterness to come through.  Pulling back on the sulfate will help accentuate the malt character, but I wouldn't go too far down with the sulfate with this style.  It is a Bitter after all.  But, this is homebrew, so make what you want to drink, and if you want the malt, go for it.  (I have my "Water" book on order, and can't wait until it comes out.)