[aschecte]

I knew I had this bookmarked but it took a while to find it... A comparison of the sieve fractions for some homebrew mills. http://brewlikeapro.net/maltmilling.html

   Great article but completely misses the point this article is referring to brew house eff not mash eff the two are completely different topics. I am talking about the amount of exposed surface area of the grain to water ratio not the efficiency overall which would be the brew house eff. which in that regard I agree 100% course grind or fine makes no difference what so ever. But in a mash itself which this article makes not a single mention of crush does make a difference. Not to sound demeaning but to explain the difference which I would be surprised if every single person on this thread doesn't already know Brew house eff is the total volume of grain , wort, hops, etc that makes it from step 1 to your fermenter. Mash eff is only the amount of converted starches to sugars based on volume of wort collected. The article provided does not remotely touch that topic at all at least not that I read and I read this 3 times just to make sure. So again I'll state this was only for my own personal curiosity as to what people set their mills to and there is a lot of factors that also play into conversion ie. PH, temperature, grain bill, diastatic power (lintner), adjuncts, the list goes on so a coarser crush may not be a bad thing so don't think I am arguing against a coarse crush but at the same time I feel in a non-ideal situation a  finer crush may level out that playing field a little more in the favor of a higher yield from the mash itself. Let's not get confused by the two types of eff brew house vs mash eff.

[aschecte]

Let me ask this question...... I set my mill to .034" would the majority of you consider this a fine or a coarse crush ? Honestly I don't know..... all I do know is when my mill went to heck my eff dropped 10 points when I re gapped to what I tightened it down to from factory settings I have a barley crusher their supposed factory setting is .039" I get 85% constant. So honestly I don't know is .034" fine or coarse ? this is a serious question.

[a10t2]

Brew house eff is the total volume of grain , wort, hops, etc that makes it from step 1 to your fermenter.

That's a perfectly valid definition, but in the Briess presentation linked within the linked article, they define brewhouse efficiency as the percentage of CGAI extract that's present in the wort - what you're calling mash efficiency.

[denny]

Let me ask this question...... I set my mill to .034" would the majority of you consider this a fine or a coarse crush ? Honestly I don't know..... all I do know is when my mill went to heck my eff dropped 10 points when I re gapped to what I tightened it down to from factory settings I have a barley crusher their supposed factory setting is .039" I get 85% constant. So honestly I don't know is .034" fine or coarse ? this is a serious question.

I'd consider it mid range, neither fine nor coarse.

[aschecte]

Ok then I'm mid range getting 85% that's good to know and somewhat supports both sides of the fence as with most things in life moderation usually gets you the best results.

[aschecte]

Brew house eff is the total volume of grain , wort, hops, etc that makes it from step 1 to your fermenter.

That's a perfectly valid definition, but in the Briess presentation linked within the linked article, they define brewhouse efficiency as the percentage of CGAI extract that's present in the wort - what you're calling mash efficiency.

  Ok I did not follow any links so bad on me ...... is this article geared towards home brewers or towards professional breweries as crush in a professional setting is a much lower concern at the larger volumes ( though still a concern don't misinterpret that ). I still from experience and schooling don't fully agree though I believe strongly that we are splitting hairs as their are so many variable besides the crush.

[hopfenundmalz]

There is a quasi start up in the area (brewpub going to a production facility with a name change but same brewer) that has a mash press and hammer mill. The grain is reduced to a fine powder with the hammer mill. Conversion is said to be very fast due to the high surface area of the starch. The press then extracts all of available liquid. Belgian breweries claim over 100% efficiency with this set up, around 104% IIRC.

That would be a fine crush!

[a10t2]

crush in a professional setting is a much lower concern at the larger volumes

I'm not sure I follow... Crush is a *major* concern in a professional setting. A deeper grain bed is more prone to channeling or sticking (due to too coarse or too fine a crush, respectively), and it's much more likely that the lautering equipment is optimized for a particular crush, even to the point of needing to pump the mash around. And then there are the profitability implications of efficiency, of course.

[aschecte]

crush in a professional setting is a much lower concern at the larger volumes

I'm not sure I follow... Crush is a *major* concern in a professional setting. A deeper grain bed is more prone to channeling or sticking (due to too coarse or too fine a crush, respectively), and it's much more likely that the lautering equipment is optimized for a particular crush, even to the point of needing to pump the mash around. And then there are the profitability implications of efficiency, of course.

You somewhat misunderstand what I meant like I said it is a concern but I feel a bigger concern for home brewers....... I worked for a micro brewery in the northeast that is nationally distributed..... we utilized raking systems to keep uniform temperature and consistency of mash during the actual mash to make sure all grain is wetted and also recirculated to even the biger picture out. in a home brew setup not everyone utilizes pumps and recirculated mashes and I've never met a home brewer who has a 100% duty rake system in the tun our equivalent would be stirring the mash for 5 minutes. Again don't misunderstand what I am saying it is a concern to commercial brewers by all means but I feel home brewers benefit a bit more of a consistent crush.