[tcanova]

Anyone ever do the sour addition to a stout like a Guiness?  I have read up on it but was wanting to hear from someone with some experience. 

I'm planning a ten gallon batch so probably souring about a quart to add back in.

[morticaixavier]

Never tried it. curious to hear how it works. You will be pasteurizing the souring addition right? so the whole batch doesn't go south?

[tcanova]

Yes. Will hold it at 170 for 30 min before adding back.

[mabrungard]

It is not necessary to sour the beer to create a dry stout.  Guinness' method probably does not include a 'souring' step.  Their naturally low alkalinity water produces a more acidic extract when they perform their separate roast grain steeping step. 

Use the Guinness method to brew a dry stout.  Use RO or distilled water for its low alkalinity.  Mash all the pale malt and barley without the roast grains.  Steep the roast grains separately in RO or distilled water and add that 'flavor extract' to the wort from the pale malt mash.  The pale malt mash pH will be in the proper 5.4 range with minor additions of calcium chloride and gypsum.  The pH of the flavor extract will be well below 5.4 and it will help bring the overall pH of the finished wort down and produce that distinctive acidic perception that the dry stout style exhibits.

 

[tcanova]

It is not necessary to sour the beer to create a dry stout.  Guinness' method probably does not include a 'souring' step.  Their naturally low alkalinity water produces a more acidic extract when they perform their separate roast grain steeping step. 

Use the Guinness method to brew a dry stout.  Use RO or distilled water for its low alkalinity.  Mash all the pale malt and barley without the roast grains.  Steep the roast grains separately in RO or distilled water and add that 'flavor extract' to the wort from the pale malt mash.  The pale malt mash pH will be in the proper 5.4 range with minor additions of calcium chloride and gypsum.  The pH of the flavor extract will be well below 5.4 and it will help bring the overall pH of the finished wort down and produce that distinctive acidic perception that the dry stout style exhibits.

I was planning on cold steeping the dark grains, per Gordon Strong's book, and you believe this will create the same effect? 

That would be nice because I was not looking forward to the souring process.

[repo]

It is not necessary to sour the beer to create a dry stout.  Guinness' method probably does not include a 'souring' step.  Their naturally low alkalinity water produces a more acidic extract when they perform their separate roast grain steeping step. 

I thought they had high alkaline water, well suited for stouts. Is this not the case?

[mabrungard]

I thought they had high alkaline water, well suited for stouts. Is this not the case?

Most of Ireland does have high alkalinity water.  However there are places that do not.  The southern area of Dublin is blessed with relatively low mineralized water.  Guess where Guinness is located. 

Of course, Guinness now uses RO for all their brewing water, so it matters less where they are located.  RO treatment is probably to ensure a stable water quality for their brewing.  The Dublin water can vary since they have multiple sources. Playing Russian Roulette with your brewing water is not the formula for a consistent product.

[HoosierBrew]

It is not necessary to sour the beer to create a dry stout.  Guinness' method probably does not include a 'souring' step.  Their naturally low alkalinity water produces a more acidic extract when they perform their separate roast grain steeping step. 

Use the Guinness method to brew a dry stout.  Use RO or distilled water for its low alkalinity.  Mash all the pale malt and barley without the roast grains.  Steep the roast grains separately in RO or distilled water and add that 'flavor extract' to the wort from the pale malt mash.  The pale malt mash pH will be in the proper 5.4 range with minor additions of calcium chloride and gypsum.  The pH of the flavor extract will be well below 5.4 and it will help bring the overall pH of the finished wort down and produce that distinctive acidic perception that the dry stout style exhibits.

 

Very helpful Martin.  I remember 15+ years ago several brewing books of the time theorized that Guiness purposely soured a small % of the grist via sour mash, then added to the whole to achieve that tang.  Yours is the most plausible (and easiest) method to duplicate around.

[klickitat jim]

Pretty cool how things get stated like absolute fact then come to find out its someone's wild guess that got repeated.

[denny]

Pretty cool how things get stated like absolute fact then come to find out its someone's wild guess that got repeated.

You're talking about 90% of homebrewing info.....

[klickitat jim]

I'm finding that out lol