Author Topic: Filled Keg storage  (Read 4695 times)

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Filled Keg storage
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2013, 08:31:29 AM »
Why would kegged beer be any different than bottled beer?

If you are naturally carbonating in the keg, then there isn't much of a difference. If you are force carbing, there is a difference.

I wish the AHA had the seminars from the 2010 NHC. Jennifer Helber, LHBS owner here in KC and former Boulevard Sensory Panel Lead gave (and still does around the KC area) an excellent presentation on why bottle conditioning is superior for long term flavor stabilization. I wish I had a copy of it. For the record, Boulevard still bottle conditions all of their bottled beers.

IMO, they make some awesome beers.  So perhaps I should do more bottle conditioning.

I keep my kegs in a cool room in my basement that's stable at +/- 60 degrees.  I use a window A/C and a Johnson temp controller to keep it there.  At this temp, the beer seems to stay stable for the long term.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Filled Keg storage
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2013, 09:42:04 AM »
Let's not forget that the bar probably doesn't want your warm keg - they want to put it on tap.  I know the places that have your beer tend to go through kegs quickly mic, better to have it cold and ready for them.  "I could deliver a keg to you, but it's warm . . . " doesn't sound great to me.

You could build a second room next to your fermentation room, and make the second room your fermentation room.  The old fermentation room becomes your walk in.  Move your heater/controller over to the fermentation side, and hook up the cold side of the controller to a couple of small fans to blow cold air in the bottom (and return from the top) of the wall that separates them.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline majorvices

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Filled Keg storage
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2013, 10:13:57 AM »
Great point, Tom. Nothing pisses off a bar manager more than having a warm keg delivered on Friday at 4:00
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Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Filled Keg storage
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2013, 03:01:26 PM »
Great point, Tom. Nothing pisses off a bar manager more than having a warm keg delivered on Friday at 4:00

Think about from the consumer side.  Back in your days of planning keggers (admit it, we all had to plan at least one kegger) Did you ever get a warm keg?  would you have accepted it?  At a commercial level your kegs must be cold.  For homebrew, I built a cabinet that is against an underground wall.  Internally it stays about 55*F (back wall is open to drywall over concrete).  That means into serving fridge I need about a 12*F drop (or less) which works well for me.  If I were selling beer, I would build a cold room 2 to 3 times my current production capacity (hope springs eternal) and keep the kegs at serving temp.  Depending on distribution area I would have a refrigerated van/truck. 

Paul
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 10:09:37 AM by denny »
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Offline micsager

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Re: Filled Keg storage
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2013, 10:08:43 AM »
Let's not forget that the bar probably doesn't want your warm keg - they want to put it on tap.  I know the places that have your beer tend to go through kegs quickly mic, better to have it cold and ready for them.  "I could deliver a keg to you, but it's warm . . . " doesn't sound great to me.

You could build a second room next to your fermentation room, and make the second room your fermentation room.  The old fermentation room becomes your walk in.  Move your heater/controller over to the fermentation side, and hook up the cold side of the controller to a couple of small fans to blow cold air in the bottom (and return from the top) of the wall that separates them.

Yea, that makes good sense.  I just don't know what SWMBO would say right now if I wanted to build another room.  LOL.  I think my best solution for now, is chest freezer, with a controller.  But if we grow any further, all bets are off.

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Re: Filled Keg storage
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2013, 11:02:32 AM »
Maybe rent a refrigerated storage unit until you can put in a second walk-in?

why bottle conditioning is superior for long term flavor stabilization.

Is it the yeast sediment that's the crucial factor, or something to do with the bottle conditioning itself?
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: Re: Filled Keg storage
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2013, 04:16:26 PM »

why bottle conditioning is superior for long term flavor stabilization.

Is it the yeast sediment that's the crucial factor, or something to do with the bottle conditioning itself?

According to Boulevard, who centrifuges all their beer and adds their proprietary bottling strain (yes, even the wheats), it is for the yeasts' superior oxygen depleting properties. They claim much longer shelf life over counter pressure filled bottles.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Filled Keg storage
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2013, 11:00:30 PM »

why bottle conditioning is superior for long term flavor stabilization.

Is it the yeast sediment that's the crucial factor, or something to do with the bottle conditioning itself?

According to Boulevard, who centrifuges all their beer and adds their proprietary bottling strain (yes, even the wheats), it is for the yeasts' superior oxygen depleting properties. They claim much longer shelf life over counter pressure filled bottles.
That is totally believable to me.
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Re: Filled Keg storage
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2013, 07:23:49 AM »
I've never understood why so few breweries use the oxygen-scavenging caps.

For that matter, why aren't can lid liners made of that stuff?*

*This idea is the property of Two Mile Brewing LLC.
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Offline anthony

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Re: Filled Keg storage
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2013, 07:55:58 AM »
Because most reasonable bottling/canning lines pre-purge with CO2 and cap/seam on foam anyways.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Filled Keg storage
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2013, 08:35:11 AM »
I've never understood why so few breweries use the oxygen-scavenging caps.

For that matter, why aren't can lid liners made of that stuff?*

*This idea is the property of Two Mile Brewing LLC.
I don't know if it ever proved to be legit, but I read several accounts over recent years that the O2 scavenging caps also reduce hop aromas pretty noticeably. 
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Re: Filled Keg storage
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2013, 09:33:26 AM »
Because most reasonable bottling/canning lines pre-purge with CO2 and cap/seam on foam anyways.

True, but we were still testing at 300-600 ppb off a four-head Meheen Merlin. Switching caps brought that down to <100 ppb.
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: Filled Keg storage
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2013, 12:32:23 PM »

why bottle conditioning is superior for long term flavor stabilization.

Is it the yeast sediment that's the crucial factor, or something to do with the bottle conditioning itself?

According to Boulevard, who centrifuges all their beer and adds their proprietary bottling strain (yes, even the wheats), it is for the yeasts' superior oxygen depleting properties. They claim much longer shelf life over counter pressure filled bottles.
That is totally believable to me.

I believe it, but I don't have the data or sources to back it up. Just by going to the brewery and knowing one of their retired sensory leads is what makes me believe it.

BTW - it has got to be more expensive to centrifuge out the yeast, add bottling yeast and priming sugar/cap than it is to just counter pressure fill.
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Offline nateo

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Re: Filled Keg storage
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2013, 01:00:38 PM »
BTW - it has got to be more expensive to centrifuge out the yeast, add bottling yeast and priming sugar/cap than it is to just counter pressure fill.

Yeah, outfits as big and successful as Boulevard probably don't spend money on stuff like that unless it's worth it.
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