Author Topic: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?  (Read 1481 times)

Offline rabid_dingo

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Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« on: March 08, 2010, 11:57:50 AM »
I brewed Denny's Rye PA and my base malt had quite a bit of grain that had the root growing out of it.
the mash, once drained, looked like I threw in some broken ramen noodles. Does the malting process
go to far and is there an adverse effect when that happens.
Ruben * Colorado :)

Offline denny

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Re: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2010, 12:05:42 PM »
Does the malting process go to far and is there an adverse effect when that happens.

IIRC, yes, it can go too far and be detrimental.  But I don't have facts at hand.
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Offline babalu87

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Re: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2010, 12:30:05 PM »
I brewed Denny's Rye PA and my base malt had quite a bit of grain that had the root growing out of it.
the mash, once drained, looked like I threw in some broken ramen noodles. Does the malting process
go to far and is there an adverse effect when that happens.

How were your efficiencies compared to previous batches?

The taste will be the final judge but efficiency could point to an issue
Jeff

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Hefeweizen,Berliner Weisse, Mead

Offline rabid_dingo

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Re: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2010, 01:07:53 PM »
It is fermenting nicely, My efficiency held. I am not too worried but it was one of those
thoughts that if I paid for a certain product and I got bad product I'd like to know
and try to exchange or replace. But I won't know for another week or so...
Ruben * Colorado :)

Offline rabid_dingo

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Re: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2010, 01:23:06 PM »
Here are some images...
This is a handful of grain I pulled out of the bin. I separated the more "advanced" sprouts.


Close up of the advanced sprouts.


I hope the ratio holds true.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 09:03:09 PM by rabid_dingo »
Ruben * Colorado :)

Offline a10t2

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Re: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2010, 01:25:48 PM »
I've been seeing just a few of those per sack recently. I suspect it's a result of the maltsters trying to get their yields as high as absolutely possible. (Over the past four years or so it seems like my Rahr analyses have been steadily ticking up, from about 81% to 83%.)

The ratio of normal:sprouted grains in the photo is more than I've seen though.
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Offline Kaiser

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Re: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2010, 02:00:32 PM »
I can’t see the photos. It says that they have been moved or deleted.

As for the maltster, when it comes to their efficiency they are actually interested in letting the barley germinate as little as possible since the growth of the embryo consumes starch. The skill of the maltster is being able to let it germinate just long enough to satisfy the modification demands of the customer.

Are you seeing the root or shoot grow out of the malt kernels? I suspect it is the latter since the rootlets are removed after drying of the malt. Normally the shoot would be about ¾ to full length of the kernel. I have not really seen it longer than that.

Kai

Offline rabid_dingo

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Re: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2010, 09:05:29 PM »
I re-edited the img links. Some of the rootlets are twice the length of the kernel...More evident in the mash once it
is all wet and the color seeps through from the roasted malts and the bed was red the roots not. I wish I took a pic.
Ruben * Colorado :)

Offline Kaiser

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Re: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2010, 08:52:17 AM »
That is some long acrospire in those kernels. I have not seen that in my malt and since I mill by hand I would have noticed that in the gist. But it affects only about 1-2% of the grain and I would not worry about it. I’d be curious if they are just odd outlier or of the grain is unevenly modified i.e. the length of the acrospire is ranging form very short (1/2 of the grain) to very long (extending past the grain). Keep in mind that you can only see the acrospire well if it extends past the grain. If it is shorter than the grain it is still fully covered by husk material.

This all belongs to the nice to know department and I don’t want you to get worried about this malt too much. Brew with it and pay attention to changes in efficiency, foam stability and body. If there are problems that you didn’t have before we can take a closer look at the malt again.

Kai

Offline denny

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Re: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2010, 09:24:19 AM »
Who's the maltster?  Like Kai, I've never seen anything like that.
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Offline a10t2

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Re: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2010, 02:17:00 PM »
As for the maltster, when it comes to their efficiency they are actually interested in letting the barley germinate as little as possible since the growth of the embryo consumes starch. The skill of the maltster is being able to let it germinate just long enough to satisfy the modification demands of the customer.

Good point. I was thinking more about trying to maximize enzyme content, since their biggest customers are probably the adjunct brewing industry - macro lagers, and maybe liquor as well.
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Offline dean

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Re: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2010, 02:34:55 PM »
Its been a few years now but I read an article on malting grain and the spires are supposed to be rolled off after germination when the grain is dried or kilned.  The pictures make it look like they germinated after being kilned or were never kilned?  What brand is it?

Offline uthristy

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Re: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2010, 02:46:45 PM »
I've seen that in Dingemans Pilsner & Muntons MO.

Offline rabid_dingo

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Re: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2010, 03:39:56 PM »
It was Thomas Fawcett, Marris Otter.  It is new to me too.  I'll keep cool about it and see
what the end product turns out. If it is fine, I wont think any more of it.
Ruben * Colorado :)

Offline a10t2

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Re: Is there a possibility of "Over malting" grain?
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2010, 04:04:48 PM »
Good to know... I have an unopened sack of TF MO in the garage. I'll have to check it out.
Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
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