Author Topic: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter  (Read 2436 times)

Offline rapurcell85

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BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« on: June 12, 2013, 05:48:53 PM »
So I brewed a Coconut Porter, and think it is a great beer.  I want to enter it into a competition, but am not sure which category it shout go into: 20A Fruit Beer or 21A Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer.  I think coconut is technically a fruit, but I'm not sure.  What say ye?
Thanks,
Bob

Offline fmader

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Re: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2013, 06:01:09 PM »
I would say fruit... Coconut is definitely a fruit
Frank

Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2013, 06:39:31 PM »
Read the styles.  I think coconut is specifically mentioned in the vegetable category definition. Might be wrong though. Yes, coconut is a vegetable. So are cucumbers, and pumpkin, and barley.

Jimmy K

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Offline udubdawg

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Re: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2013, 06:54:34 PM »
from this forum a couple years ago...
good enough for me.


21a is the right place.  I'll clarify in the next set of guidelines.  The intent of fruit vs SHV beers is to keep to the culinary interpretation of the ingredient not the botanical one.  If (God help us) you made a tomato beer, it would be entered in 21a not 20.  Coconut tastes more like macadamia nuts and cashews than it does raspberries and cherries.  So it goes in 21.  I thought 'nut' was good enough, but apparently not.  That was the intent, though.

Offline AmandaK

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Re: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2013, 05:32:17 AM »
from this forum a couple years ago...
good enough for me.


21a is the right place.  I'll clarify in the next set of guidelines.  The intent of fruit vs SHV beers is to keep to the culinary interpretation of the ingredient not the botanical one.  If (God help us) you made a tomato beer, it would be entered in 21a not 20.  Coconut tastes more like macadamia nuts and cashews than it does raspberries and cherries.  So it goes in 21.  I thought 'nut' was good enough, but apparently not.  That was the intent, though.

Nice find!

But didn't a coconut stout win Category 20 at last year's NHC? I think until the guidelines get updated we will keep having this question and have no clear answer.

EDIT: Yeah, "Koko's Nut Porter" won Category 20 last year.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 05:33:49 AM by AmandaK »
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2013, 05:41:01 AM »
from this forum a couple years ago...
good enough for me.


21a is the right place.  I'll clarify in the next set of guidelines.  The intent of fruit vs SHV beers is to keep to the culinary interpretation of the ingredient not the botanical one.  If (God help us) you made a tomato beer, it would be entered in 21a not 20.  Coconut tastes more like macadamia nuts and cashews than it does raspberries and cherries.  So it goes in 21.  I thought 'nut' was good enough, but apparently not.  That was the intent, though.

Nice find!

But didn't a coconut stout win Category 20 at last year's NHC? I think until the guidelines get updated we will keep having this question and have no clear answer.

EDIT: Yeah, "Koko's Nut Porter" won Category 20 last year.

I judged the category and tried to point this out last year but...
we had multiple coconut beers, and a couple of 16Es too.  *shrug*
IMO a blackberry gose with brett deserved the gold.  Every judge said it was the best.

Basically we need to find these things before the Final Round.  Asking people to ship 3 more bottles at their own expense and then telling them "sorry, you're not eligible for a medal" is wrong.  (again, IMO)

cheers--
--Michael

Offline AmandaK

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Re: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2013, 05:55:54 AM »

Basically we need to find these things before the Final Round.  Asking people to ship 3 more bottles at their own expense and then telling them "sorry, you're not eligible for a medal" is wrong.  (again, IMO)

cheers--
--Michael

Without knowing how the beers taste, how can you do this effectively?
Amanda Kertz
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Redbird Brewhouse - Current Project: Full Basement Bar Build

Offline jeffy

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Re: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2013, 06:11:30 AM »

Basically we need to find these things before the Final Round.  Asking people to ship 3 more bottles at their own expense and then telling them "sorry, you're not eligible for a medal" is wrong.  (again, IMO)

cheers--
--Michael

Without knowing how the beers taste, how can you do this effectively?

He's talking about the category they were entered in.
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2013, 06:12:36 AM »

Basically we need to find these things before the Final Round.  Asking people to ship 3 more bottles at their own expense and then telling them "sorry, you're not eligible for a medal" is wrong.  (again, IMO)

cheers--
--Michael

Without knowing how the beers taste, how can you do this effectively?

The best beer of the category was kicked before it was opened.  They judged it anyway, but had already declared it ineligible for a medal based solely on the base style being "historical" and thus should be in 23.  My argument was and is that it is silly to kick out a gose because of this and not kick out coconut beers which should be in 21A.  There are gruits listed among the commercial examples in 20A anyway; pretty sure they are just as "historical"

I don't think we should have kicked out anything.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 06:15:44 AM by udubdawg »

Offline AmandaK

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Re: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2013, 06:41:57 AM »

Basically we need to find these things before the Final Round.  Asking people to ship 3 more bottles at their own expense and then telling them "sorry, you're not eligible for a medal" is wrong.  (again, IMO)

cheers--
--Michael

Without knowing how the beers taste, how can you do this effectively?

The best beer of the category was kicked before it was opened.  They judged it anyway, but had already declared it ineligible for a medal based solely on the base style being "historical" and thus should be in 23.  My argument was and is that it is silly to kick out a gose because of this and not kick out coconut beers which should be in 21A.  There are gruits listed among the commercial examples in 20A anyway; pretty sure they are just as "historical"

I don't think we should have kicked out anything.

I see what you mean now. But aren't you supposed to consult with the judge director or competition organizer if you feel like a beer was placed in the wrong category? I don't know that this didn't happen, but it seems a bit presumptuous to kick a beer out of contention because a judge (or judges) feel(s) it doesn't fit the guidelines - especially if you haven't even tried it.
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Redbird Brewhouse - Current Project: Full Basement Bar Build

Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2013, 07:09:25 AM »

The best beer of the category was kicked before it was opened.  They judged it anyway, but had already declared it ineligible for a medal based solely on the base style being "historical" and thus should be in 23.  My argument was and is that it is silly to kick out a gose because of this and not kick out coconut beers which should be in 21A.  There are gruits listed among the commercial examples in 20A anyway; pretty sure they are just as "historical"

I don't think we should have kicked out anything.
And the guidelines for 20 state that the base style does NOT have to be a classic style. I'd think blackberry gose should be fine in 20.
Jimmy K

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2013, 07:28:28 AM »
Seems to me the onus should be on the entrant. If I enter my perfect Cadillac in the classic motorcycle class then it's my fault it has too many wheels to score well.

Offline bbkf

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Re: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2013, 07:29:27 AM »
Last years gold winning fruit beer at NHC was a coconut porter

Offline rapurcell85

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Re: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2013, 06:08:14 AM »
Thanks for all the feedback!  Sounds like I could go either way with it then.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: BJCP Category for Coconut Porter
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2013, 08:32:29 AM »
Thanks for all the feedback!  Sounds like I could go either way with it then.

Or neither if the judges say so.....?
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