Author Topic: Little confused with decoction schedule  (Read 3011 times)

Offline Pi

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Little confused with decoction schedule
« on: June 24, 2013, 11:51:37 AM »
Reviewing a couple double decoction mash schedules I noticed the first decoction gets pulled from the protein rest; goes through a short Beta rest and returned to the main mash after decocting for a period. this means the main mash stays at a protein rest for 2 or more hours. And with today's well modified malts, especially the US varieties, isn't that going to destroy any head retention? I thought 30 minutes at 122-129 was about the max you would want to be at that level?
I have had excellent results decocting between Beta and Alpha rests and didnt see the point to decoct into mashout. What am I missing?
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Offline denny

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Little confused with decoction schedule
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2013, 11:58:35 AM »
You are exactly right.  The trouble with many step mash schedules is that they assume a protein rest.  There's no reason you have to include a protein rest in a step mash schedule.
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: Little confused with decoction schedule
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2013, 12:30:27 PM »
Agreed.  I typically infuse to the sac rest, then pull a decoction and return to the dex rest and then again to mashout for my Oktoberfest.

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Offline narvin

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Re: Little confused with decoction schedule
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2013, 12:48:21 PM »
You can do a decoction without a protein rest; check out Kai's page about the Hochkurz mash:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing#Hochkurz_Double_Decoction

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Offline AmandaK

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Re: Little confused with decoction schedule
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2013, 01:13:25 PM »
You can do a decoction without a protein rest; check out Kai's page about the Hochkurz mash:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing#Hochkurz_Double_Decoction

Love the Hochkurz.  8)
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Little confused with decoction schedule
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2013, 01:39:00 PM »
I also forgo a protein rest in my decoction mashes. I infuse at sacc rest and decoct up to dex rest.

If you were brewing with undermodified grain it would be a good idea to do the much longer decoction schedule but otherwise it's not a good idea to hang out in a protein rest.
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Offline jeffy

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Re: Little confused with decoction schedule
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2013, 01:50:51 PM »
What I've been doing is starting with an acid rest, which may help with acidifying the pH, then while the decocted portion is boiling, I raise the heat on the main mash by recirculating and heating until it gets to a protein temp, then when I add the decoction back it goes right to the beta rest.  This way I get three rests for the price of one decoction.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Little confused with decoction schedule
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2013, 02:27:35 PM »
What I've been doing is starting with an acid rest, which may help with acidifying the pH, then while the decocted portion is boiling, I raise the heat on the main mash by recirculating and heating until it gets to a protein temp, then when I add the decoction back it goes right to the beta rest.  This way I get three rests for the price of one decoction.
I might have to try that one.

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Offline beersk

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Re: Little confused with decoction schedule
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2013, 02:33:04 PM »
You can do a decoction without a protein rest; check out Kai's page about the Hochkurz mash:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing#Hochkurz_Double_Decoction

Love the Hochkurz.  8)
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: Little confused with decoction schedule
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2013, 06:05:05 PM »
You can do a decoction without a protein rest; check out Kai's page about the Hochkurz mash:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing#Hochkurz_Double_Decoction

Narvin, I know I don't have a fancy web page, but that is exactly what I said previously!  Just a lot shorter.... ;)
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: Little confused with decoction schedule
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2013, 06:06:41 PM »
What I've been doing is starting with an acid rest, which may help with acidifying the pH, then while the decocted portion is boiling, I raise the heat on the main mash by recirculating and heating until it gets to a protein temp, then when I add the decoction back it goes right to the beta rest.  This way I get three rests for the price of one decoction.
I might have to try that one.

Me too.  Just need to build my Brutus 20 first!
Dave Zach

Offline philm63

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Re: Little confused with decoction schedule
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2013, 02:45:11 PM »
Gonna try decoction on a hefe for the first time soon, and would like to know if there is any limit on how long you can stay in the acid rest without risk.

If I mash in at 111 F for a ferulic acid rest and let it sit for 10 minutes then pull my decoction, can I just let the mash hang out at 111 (and falling...) while I'm taking the decoction through a sacc rest then a short boil? Shouldn't be more than an hour.

Will I be risking anything with the mash sitting below protein rest temps?
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Offline Pi

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Re: Little confused with decoction schedule
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2013, 06:51:27 AM »
Gonna try decoction on a hefe for the first time soon, and would like to know if there is any limit on how long you can stay in the acid rest without risk.

If I mash in at 111 F for a ferulic acid rest and let it sit for 10 minutes then pull my decoction, can I just let the mash hang out at 111 (and falling...) while I'm taking the decoction through a sacc rest then a short boil? Shouldn't be more than an hour.

Will I be risking anything with the mash sitting below protein rest temps?
No. Check out Kai's page on the Hochkurz mash. "Not only does it serve to lower the pH by simply using the phosphatase and other acid forming enzymatic activity, but since there is no enzymatic activity that can have a detrimental affect on the final result, there is no rush to move to the next rest."
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