Author Topic: Help with Berliner pellicle.  (Read 3642 times)

Offline rainmaker

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Help with Berliner pellicle.
« on: June 25, 2013, 04:18:25 PM »
Sorry for the bad photo, but I was wondering if anyone can help with this.... It's a very thin film with intermittent bubbles. My question is, what is it from, and is it safe?


Offline ccfoo242

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Re: Help with Berliner pellicle.
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 07:17:42 PM »
I'll defer to others for the correct answer, but I thought the boil was supposed to kill off any bugs left in the berliner mash.

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Offline lornemagill

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Re: Help with Berliner pellicle.
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2013, 08:20:10 PM »
I am by no means an expert but ive done a few berliners and I think that is a lacto pellicle.

Offline rainmaker

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Re: Re: Help with Berliner pellicle.
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 03:41:58 AM »
I'll defer to others for the correct answer, but I thought the boil was supposed to kill off any bugs left in the berliner mash.

After reading your posting realized I left out a very important detail. I pitched some dregs from 1809 and Cuvee Freddy to see what would happen, and racked off of the yeast after a week. Thus shot is taken 4 weeks in, and I plan to bottle this week.

Any suggestions for bottling, or just go about it like any other?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 03:43:33 AM by rainmaker »

Offline redbeerman

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Re: Help with Berliner pellicle.
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 06:46:53 AM »
Have you taken a gravity reading lately?  You need to make sure that the bugs are done before you bottle it or you may have issues with bottle bombs.  My experience with this is that it takes months for it to finish as opposed to weeks (assuming the dregs contain a Brett strain).  Your other option would be to pasteurize the beer, then reyeast and prime and bottle.  Or you could cut back on your priming sugar to help assure that you don't over pressurize the bottles, but there are no guarantees with this method.  Personally, I would wait.
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Offline rainmaker

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Re: Help with Berliner pellicle.
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2013, 06:56:12 AM »
I let the bugs work for a week then pitched wlp001. Took a reading a week after and was 3 points from fg. It's now been sitting for an additional 2 weeks and I haven't checked it since

Offline kramerog

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Re: Help with Berliner pellicle.
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 07:08:54 AM »
You can bottle the beer and let carbonate.  You should monitor the carbonation as the bugs may continue to work slowly eat up the sugars and increasing the carbonation.  If the beer is getting overcarbonated it is time to put it all in the fridge.

Also I'm unclear if you did a boil or not.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Help with Berliner pellicle.
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2013, 07:10:36 AM »
yes it's a pellicle. Yes, it's totally safe. It is also likely quite taste. I have a batch pitched with, among other things, some cuvee freddy dregs and it already tastes awesome after about 5 weeks.

How did you decide it was three points from fg? Especially with mixed fermentations you can't really make a determination of what the fg 'should' be. those bugs are going to keep eating what they can until they can't.

but yeah, short answer is it's fine. It's not just lacto though. if you used the cuvee freddy it has a full compliment of bugs in there.
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Offline rainmaker

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Re: Re: Help with Berliner pellicle.
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2013, 07:10:47 AM »
You can bottle the beer and let carbonate.  You should monitor the carbonation as the bugs may continue to work slowly eat up the sugars and increasing the carbonation.  If the beer is getting overcarbonated it is time to put it all in the fridge.

Also I'm unclear if you did a boil or not.

Did not boil it after pitching bugs. From what I've read all the bugs but Brett ate probably done due to alcohol or pH.

Offline rainmaker

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Re: Re: Help with Berliner pellicle.
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2013, 07:33:01 AM »
yes it's a pellicle. Yes, it's totally safe. It is also likely quite taste. I have a batch pitched with, among other things, some cuvee freddy dregs and it already tastes awesome after about 5 weeks.

How did you decide it was three points from fg? Especially with mixed fermentations you can't really make a determination of what the fg 'should' be. those bugs are going to keep eating what they can until they can't.

but yeah, short answer is it's fine. It's not just lacto though. if you used the cuvee freddy it has a full compliment of bugs in there.

I am using beer smith for my calculations. Was to finish at 1.009. When I checked a week after pitching wlp001, it had dropped to 1.012. I'm new to bugs so it's been an exciting journey.

It sat on bugs for 2 weeks before I racked to secondary, but I have no idea how much is still working in there.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Help with Berliner pellicle.
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2013, 07:47:40 AM »
It's a pellicle from something in the dregs you added. It is safe although if you sample some of the beer with the pellicle you might not enjoy the filmy texture. Don't worry, the pellicle will either drop out on its own or fall apart during bottling.

Both of the beers you added dregs from look like they should only have lactobacillus but I don't know that for sure. There may be brett or other bacteria in addition to lacto. I would recommend checking the gravity once a week and see when it stabilizes. Lacto is a fast moving bacteria so once it's run out of sugars it can consume it's done. However, if you keep seeing the gravity slowly dropping week by week you've got something else in there that's chewing up your beer and you will have to make a decision about either bottling it and drinking it fairly quickly or letting it ride until it is stable.
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Offline rainmaker

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Re: Re: Help with Berliner pellicle.
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2013, 08:01:20 AM »
It's a pellicle from something in the dregs you added. It is safe although if you sample some of the beer with the pellicle you might not enjoy the filmy texture. Don't worry, the pellicle will either drop out on its own or fall apart during bottling.

Both of the beers you added dregs from look like they should only have lactobacillus but I don't know that for sure. There may be brett or other bacteria in addition to lacto. I would recommend checking the gravity once a week and see when it stabilizes. Lacto is a fast moving bacteria so once it's run out of sugars it can consume it's done. However, if you keep seeing the gravity slowly dropping week by week you've got something else in there that's chewing up your beer and you will have to make a decision about either bottling it and drinking it fairly quickly or letting it ride until it is stable.

According to madfermentationist, cuvee freddy has the whole gamut of bugs, Brett, lacto, and pedio.

I haven't tasted it yet, so perhaps I'll pull a sample to test the gravity and taste test

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Re: Help with Berliner pellicle.
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2013, 08:04:08 AM »
yes it's a pellicle. Yes, it's totally safe. It is also likely quite taste. I have a batch pitched with, among other things, some cuvee freddy dregs and it already tastes awesome after about 5 weeks.

How did you decide it was three points from fg? Especially with mixed fermentations you can't really make a determination of what the fg 'should' be. those bugs are going to keep eating what they can until they can't.

but yeah, short answer is it's fine. It's not just lacto though. if you used the cuvee freddy it has a full compliment of bugs in there.

I am using beer smith for my calculations. Was to finish at 1.009. When I checked a week after pitching wlp001, it had dropped to 1.012. I'm new to bugs so it's been an exciting journey.

It sat on bugs for 2 weeks before I racked to secondary, but I have no idea how much is still working in there.

that fg number in beer smith is an estimate and should not be used as a guide. I would be shocked if your true fg on this was higher than 1.003.

Also those flavours are no where near fully developed. Stick this puppy in a dark corner for a few more months and don't worry about it.
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Offline chezteth

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Re: Help with Berliner pellicle.
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2013, 09:29:07 AM »
I definitely agree with putting it away for a few months. The first time I used Brett I bottled too soon and ended up with extremely overcarbonated beer.

Cheers,
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Offline rainmaker

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Re: Help with Berliner pellicle.
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2013, 10:13:26 AM »
I definitely agree with putting it away for a few months. The first time I used Brett I bottled too soon and ended up with extremely overcarbonated beer.

Cheers,
Brandon

I've let it sit since posting.  Plan to let it go for another month or so