[riverrat]

http://www.surlybrewing.com/beer/year-round-beers.html

MN has it figured out.

[majorvices]

Some of the cheaper bands in Germany are sold in brown PET bottles. The problem is the O2 permability but judging by the papers I have come across, the industry is working on solving this problem.

When it comes to packaging it's all a matter of cost. If disposing bottles is cheaper than setting up a reuse infrastructure the industry will always bias towards disposable containers.

Kai

Yes, of course, I forgot all about that. I've had a few and, for cheap beer they are pretty good actually. When I had them I thought to myself how awesome it would be for American brewers to do the same. I would love to take a couple PET bottled beers camping. You can drink the beer and then use the bottle as water. That said, I need to remember that next time I go .... package a little homebrew. Can't believe I never thought of that before....  

[babalu87]

Oh, and spare me the holier than thou "I keg so I'm so superior to you poor schmucks who still have to bottle".  That's another one for "nudder story".

A keg is basically a can - a really, really big cans.

really big cans.

Yeah, now this thread is going somewhere 

I think New England Brewing is coming out with "bomber" cans

What ever happened to the re-usable bar bottles, I bet those could hold 5 volumes of CO2
I still have some cases of the 16 oz Shaeffer bottles in the heavy waxed carboard cases, cherish those like my kids 

[brewboy]

"   I would love to take a couple PET bottled beers camping."

PET bottles cannot be beat for refilling and transporting beer. If you're interested, I can show you my counter pressure PET bottle filler. Fast, simple and fills a bottle perfectly.

[majorvices]

"   I would love to take a couple PET bottled beers camping."

PET bottles cannot be beat for refilling and transporting beer. If you're interested, I can show you my counter pressure PET bottle filler. Fast, simple and fills a bottle perfectly.

Sure, post pics if you want. Is it just as simple as fitting a rubber bung that fits the diameter of the PET bottle opening?

[MrNate]

...

...

People see the can and think they need to drink right from it. You'd never drink a full-flavored beer from a bottle. This is a better, safer package than a bottle. It's draft beer in a mini-keg, and you don't drink draft beer right from a full-size keg.

Well, YOU might not. 

BTW, I've bottled in the brown PET bottles and they're nice, but they don't crush like cans do. Ultimately, cans are a more space-efficient and convenient package in every regard. I wouldn't invest in them for homebrew, but I'd definitely buy any decent, reasonably-priced beer that came in a can for all the reasons mentioned. If I'm putting a case in my beer fridge, it's gotta be cans. If I'm going camping, it's gotta be cans. If I'm drunk and likely to drop my beer, it's gotta be cans.

And yes, damn you, I do drink straight outta the can, y'all. Represent.

[brewboy]

Sure, post pics if you want. Is it just as simple as fitting a rubber bung that fits the diameter of the PET bottle opening? 

No, it is a true, counter pressure filler that doesn't initially shoot in a bunch of foam like the stopper method does. I'll post some pictures of it later. In this thread or

[sienabrewer]

I think I just happen to prefer cans.  I don't buy this nonsense that cans make the beer metallic; companies worked out that issue a long time ago.  I always pour my beer in a glass when I'm home, so drinking out of a bottle is never an issue.  As far as the environmental "advantages" I waste a ton of water each time I brew so I can't exactly claim that I care for that reason either.  I just want more cans because they store better, keep the beer fresher, are easier to pack a fridge with, I can take them anywhere, and don't have to worry about them breaking.  I guess I'm just surprised that some of the bigger micros who can afford to implement cans have not done so.  The beer is going to taste the same, it's just a matter of providing me with an easier way to bring it more places. 

[denny]

I think I just happen to prefer cans.  I don't buy this nonsense that cans make the beer metallic; companies worked out that issue a long time ago.

Total agreement....

[blatz]

micros aren't going to make a switch until there's more than just some 'goodwill' from the environmentally concious, the hikers and the beachgoers.  the systems are a large capital investment in a business where margins are tight enough as it is and competition is omnipresent. 

and the fact is, among many people not quite as geeky as we are, cans still have a stigma about them - probably because of Jim Koch's promotion against them.

now for guys starting out, maybe it makes sense, but for guys already on the run, it doesn't make sense to take money that would otherwise be going in your pocket to not increase sales. 

Adam Avery is taking a risk that is likely to be more of a tax writeoff than anything - I don't think fans of ABC are going to buy more Maharaja or Ellies Brown because its in a can, rather they may make a switch, but the net effect is neglible.

[nicneufeld]

I'd be a huge fan of cans, too.  But beyond canning, there's a missing middle bracket at least in the US that has long annoyed me...I was really, really hoping Budweiser's American Ale would fill this gap...inexpensive canned beer brewed with more flavor and less adjunct hitting a price point between craft beer and macro swill.  If Budweiser had brewed a modestly hopped pale ale, canned it, and set the pricepoint a bit higher than their lager, but not in the steep craft beer territory, they might have interested me a bit more.

Then again, this may stem from the fact that I am a homebrewer and making a batch for $15 or thereabouts makes me loathe to spend 8 bucks on a sixpack of something.  Cheap penny-pinching bastard, I know!   

But cans are brilliant packaging...compact, lightweight, light-safe, easily stacked and stored, etc etc.  Now its just a long fight to change public perception.  Even among beer geeks/brewers there persist discredited ideas about how canning ruins the beer, so among the less educated beer drinking populace its a long uphill battle...and companies have to make money at it, so if the public won't buy canned beer, they can't afford to can beer on principle just because they know its a better mousetrap, so to speak.

[dean]

I don't like cans.  The do have a "taste", maybe some people aren't able to distinguish it but I sure "can".     Also, heat transfer through metal is more rapid, not that I mind a warm beer if its a good beer but why fix something if it isn't broken?  You know that old saying... people in hell want icewater too.   

[nicneufeld]

What would be interesting is someone with enough willing beer drinkers in their immediate vicinity could stage a test:

Say you find at least 3 different microbrews publicly available in both cans and bottles.  Then stage taste testing where each tester is given two small cups of each beer, and then mark on a sheet their taste perceptions between the two beers, any differences noted, etc.  You could throw in a macrobrew canned/bottled for testing, as well.  It being essentially blind, you'll get a fairly unbiased opinion on the effects of canning vs bottling, and having beers from multiple sources should mitigate the fact that differences will likely occur between batches (so in theory a batch that was bottled could taste different from one canned, without being caused by packaging).

So, if all or a majority of the reports from testers singled out the cans as being different from each of the different breweries that were tested, you might have something pointing towards evidence that Al canning affects the taste of the beer. 

[majorvices]

I don't like cans.  The do have a "taste", maybe some people aren't able to distinguish it but I sure "can".    

Have you ever done a blind test? (I'm betting "no".  ) Don't be surprised if it isn't in your head.

[capozzoli]

Bottles are for girls. Cause they drink slow and need something to keep it cold.

Cans are for men. I can take a bite out of a beer can,  I dont want to bite a bottle.