Author Topic: DIPA Hops - Mosaic, Cascade, Apollo  (Read 2389 times)

Offline djsanta

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DIPA Hops - Mosaic, Cascade, Apollo
« on: July 08, 2013, 03:38:49 PM »
I'm planning a DIPA following Vinnie's Pliny the Elder recipe (https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/6351/doubleIPA.pdf), but I have different hops I'd like to use...big stash from NikoBrew!

Substitutions planned: Apollo for Columbus, Cascade for Centennial, and Mosaic for Simcoe.

Here are Vinnie's kettle additions for a 6 gal batch...
3.50 oz (99 g) Columbus* 13.90% A.A. 90 min.  (sub Apollo - 18% AA)
0.75 oz (21 g) Columbus* 13.90% A.A. 45 min.  (sub Apollo - 18% AA)
1.00 oz (28 g) Simcoe 12.30% A.A. 30 min.  (sub Mosaic - 12% AA)
1.00 oz (28 g) Centennial 8.00% A.A. 0 min.  (sub Cascade - 5.5% AA)
2.50 oz (71 g) Simcoe 12.30% A.A. 0 min.  (sub Mosaic - 12% AA)

AA % are fairly similar, with the exception of the Apollo.  Should I sub the hops straight across (with an obviously smaller Apollo addition)?  Or should I change the balance?  I've never brewed with Mosaic before, so I'm not sure what to expect there.

Planning to follow the same plan for dry hopping too.  Vinnie calls for equal amounts of each hop in a double dry hop.
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Conditioning: Pale Ale
Fermenting: Weizen
Planned: Doppelbock, Imperial Red, Oatmeal Stout, DIPA

Offline greatplainsbrewer

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Re: DIPA Hops - Mosaic, Cascade, Apollo
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2013, 03:48:08 PM »
There's more going on here than just bitterness.  I'm no expert but the different flavor profiles will, I presume, not blend the same as the original hop blend.

Offline erockrph

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Re: DIPA Hops - Mosaic, Cascade, Apollo
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2013, 03:51:37 PM »
Sounds like a solid plan. I think those varieties are each good substitutions to get you in the same ballpark. I'd adjust the Apollo quantities for AA%, but otherwise an ounce-for-ounce substitution should work for each of those hops. The end result will be different, but should still be damn good. Mosaic is a fantastic hop, you're gonna like it.
Eric B.

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: DIPA Hops - Mosaic, Cascade, Apollo
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2013, 03:57:31 PM »
I'm planning a DIPA following Vinnie's Pliny the Elder recipe (https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/6351/doubleIPA.pdf), but I have different hops I'd like to use...big stash from NikoBrew!

Substitutions planned: Apollo for Columbus, Cascade for Centennial, and Mosaic for Simcoe.

Here are Vinnie's kettle additions for a 6 gal batch...
3.50 oz (99 g) Columbus* 13.90% A.A. 90 min.  (sub Apollo - 18% AA)
0.75 oz (21 g) Columbus* 13.90% A.A. 45 min.  (sub Apollo - 18% AA)
1.00 oz (28 g) Simcoe 12.30% A.A. 30 min.  (sub Mosaic - 12% AA)
1.00 oz (28 g) Centennial 8.00% A.A. 0 min.  (sub Cascade - 5.5% AA)
2.50 oz (71 g) Simcoe 12.30% A.A. 0 min.  (sub Mosaic - 12% AA)

AA % are fairly similar, with the exception of the Apollo.  Should I sub the hops straight across (with an obviously smaller Apollo addition)?  Or should I change the balance?  I've never brewed with Mosaic before, so I'm not sure what to expect there.

Planning to follow the same plan for dry hopping too.  Vinnie calls for equal amounts of each hop in a double dry hop.
Obviously, as you mentioned, back the Apollo off to give you IBUs equal to the Columbus. In terms of intensity, Simcoe and Mosaic would be roughly interchangeable, though Mosaic is fruitier (in a good way IMO). And personally I would maybe increase the Cascade from 1 oz to ~1.5 oz because I feel that Cascade is a little less intense than Centennial. So this clearly won't be Pliny in terms of hop aroma and flavor, but it who cares?  Sounds good to me !  Cheers.
Jon H.

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Re: DIPA Hops - Mosaic, Cascade, Apollo
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2013, 04:35:35 PM »
I substituted mosaic for Simcoe last year. Let me say the wife would drink it, as she hates the cat pee she gets in Simcoe. Makes a good DIPA. Brew it and enjoy.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline blatz

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Re: DIPA Hops - Mosaic, Cascade, Apollo
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2013, 11:30:44 AM »
i would not dryhop with the Apollo, if i were you.

I did an experiment for our club (based off what I saw on bertusbrewery.com) a few months back, where I dryhopped 12 bottles of Bud Light, each with a different hop for our club to experience the qualities of each hop.

Apollo was voted, hands down by all 15-20 or so people present as the worst dryhop by far.  Rank, oniony and hot garbage were all descriptors I thought were appropriate.  Most of the others were very nice, but that was putrid.

I like Apollo for bittering, but beyond that, I'd rethink it.

YMMV.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: DIPA Hops - Mosaic, Cascade, Apollo
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2013, 02:48:34 PM »
i would not dryhop with the Apollo, if i were you.

I did an experiment for our club (based off what I saw on bertusbrewery.com) a few months back, where I dryhopped 12 bottles of Bud Light, each with a different hop for our club to experience the qualities of each hop.

Apollo was voted, hands down by all 15-20 or so people present as the worst dryhop by far.  Rank, oniony and hot garbage were all descriptors I thought were appropriate.  Most of the others were very nice, but that was putrid.

I like Apollo for bittering, but beyond that, I'd rethink it.

YMMV.
I misread the OP, Paul.  Since I only use Apollo for bittering like you, I assumed that was his intention too and that the late hops would be the dry hops, not the whole hop schedule.  But I would definitely not dry hop Apollo after trying a guy's IPA once which was hopped only with Apollo. Wow........horrendous.
Jon H.

Offline djsanta

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Re: DIPA Hops - Mosaic, Cascade, Apollo
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2013, 12:31:54 PM »
Thanks for the feedback.  I had planned to dry hop with all three hops.  I've made an all Apollo IPA before (bittering, flavor, aroma, and dry hop), and it didn't have any of the unpleasant flavors/aromas that some of you have mentioned. I'm planning to evaluate how they all play together in the boil to determine what direction I want it to lean for the dry hop.

Oh, and I'm using BeerSmith to calculate the IBUs so I have a properly sized bittering addition.
On Tap: nada
Conditioning: Pale Ale
Fermenting: Weizen
Planned: Doppelbock, Imperial Red, Oatmeal Stout, DIPA

Offline djsanta

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Re: DIPA Hops - Mosaic, Cascade, Apollo
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2013, 04:37:31 PM »
Brewed on Saturday.  Had a couple hiccups - flow issues on mash recirc, and ended up with more wort than planned in the kettle, which was also lower gravity than planned.  Stirred the mash and everything moved right along.  The volume/gravity issue was an easy fix: boiled an extra 30 mins before adding the first hop addition.  All ended up well.  The hop blend smelled fantastic.  I got a lot of the blueberry notes people talk about in Mosaic. Can't wait to taste the final product.

OG: 1.084.  Now fermenting away at 67F in my temp controlled fridge after pitching a 2L starter of WLP090.  Planning to dry hop with all three hops.
On Tap: nada
Conditioning: Pale Ale
Fermenting: Weizen
Planned: Doppelbock, Imperial Red, Oatmeal Stout, DIPA

Offline TrippleRippleBrewer

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Re: DIPA Hops - Mosaic, Cascade, Apollo
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2013, 08:19:18 AM »
Curious how it turns out as I just ordered a half pound of Apollo from NB. I've never used it before and I really want to experiment with this hop. I am considering blending with Cascades and go for a big grapefruit flavor IPA. Cascades will go in for 20 minutes, 5, and flameout for a hop stand of 30 minutes or so. Considering putting some Apollo in at whirlpool with them and the hop stand.

Keep us updated!
Growing Centennial, Columbus and Chinook hops.
Brewing IPA, APA, Dead Guy clone, and American Wheat most of the time.
Located in Three Rivers MI