Author Topic: So you want to be a brewer  (Read 14687 times)

Offline Slowbrew

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #120 on: October 04, 2013, 02:26:46 PM »
Truly I want to avoid the P word. Is that P word stuff? I don't think so but could be wrong I guess. Imagine if you had to call the highway patrol to get approved to drive your new car to work at the speed limit. Now I'm certain I'll never sell beer. Zoinks!

If you are a professional driver, in a lot of cases you essentially DO have to ask permission ahead of time... come to think of it we ALL need to ask permission ahead of time to drive. It's called a drivers license.

When you buy a car in many states it has to be inspected (yearly in some) to make sure it's safe to operate. So, more or less what you propose is already a reality.

This is fun. I'm tracking ya here. On your side. But this is an established brewery right? So, imagine needing to get a new drivers license when you buy a NEW car. Or new to you.

Think of the license plate as the label and the analogy kinda works.

Paul
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #121 on: October 04, 2013, 02:30:15 PM »
Yes it does! And mort schooled me there. I keep forgetting that commerce is a privilege like driving, not a right.

Offline greatplainsbrewer

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #122 on: October 04, 2013, 03:44:49 PM »
And once again, great forum.  You'd have to search high and low on the internet these days to find another forum where folks can admit to being schooled.  Nice to see adult behavior (even if I don't understand label requirements)

Offline narvin

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #123 on: October 04, 2013, 09:58:14 PM »
I'd be interested to know what the local requirements are in many places.  I know interstate commerce can be a PITA, but it seems like a brewpub should be able to release new beers like a restaurant adds new menu items.  Not sure that any place ever got shut down for having profanity on their food menu, unlike beer label approval.
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Offline a10t2

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #124 on: October 04, 2013, 10:20:47 PM »
I wonder if anyone out there has had a label request denied, and for what reason.

Two recent ones that come to mind are Lagunitas's "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot" (because you can't imply that it contains spirits) and Firestone Walker's "Velvet Merkin" (for being prurient, or something to that effect). In both cases, they were approved after minor name changes.
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Offline BrewingRover

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #125 on: October 05, 2013, 05:37:02 AM »
Didn't Bert Grant get screwed around on label approvals way back in the day?

Bert put nutritional information on a six pack carrier and was told to knock it off.
http://www.yoursforgoodfermentables.com/2013/06/decades-later-bert-grant-wins-argument.html
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #126 on: October 06, 2013, 01:04:43 PM »
I wonder if anyone out there has had a label request denied, and for what reason.

Two recent ones that come to mind are Lagunitas's "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot" (because you can't imply that it contains spirits) and Firestone Walker's "Velvet Merkin" (for being prurient, or something to that effect). In both cases, they were approved after minor name changes.
I had a couple.
Vienna Lager was denied because it "implied" that it was brewed in Vienna.
Vienna Style Lager was suggested.
Not sure why this is not case about Pilsner.
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Bohemian Dark Lager
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #127 on: October 06, 2013, 01:10:11 PM »
The wait for an ok to do a beer label is what caught my attention. I'm not convinced that we really need DC bureaucrats to survive that decision.

Only if the beer is going to cross state lines. Blame the founding fathers for that one.

So how does that work?  I remember reading on probrewer that someone wanted to get a kind of generic keg/tap label approved for their brewpub so they could do new styles more quickly, but it was denied.  Do you only need TTB approval if you're selling out of state?

Right, you only need to go through the federal labeling approval process (COLA) if you are selling beer out of state.  Unless beer is being sold in interstate commerce, the feds have no authority to regulate it.  Thanks to the 21st Amendment, the individual states retain exclusive control over alcohol regulation if the alcohol stays within their borders.

To my knowledge you need to have label approved even in instate commerce.
Simply put it I would not have cans printed without COLA approval.
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On Tap At The TapRoom:
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Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
MaiBock
American Brown Ale
Marzen
Root beer

Offline Pawtucket Patriot

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #128 on: October 06, 2013, 02:59:00 PM »
The TTB fraud prevention agent I spoke with a few weeks ago told me that COLAs are only necessary when a brewery is distributing outside of its home state.  I can't think of any harm from filing for a COLA even if a brewery is only distributing in its home state.  And, if you plan on distributing to other states in the future, it will save a step down the road.
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Offline boulderbrewer

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #129 on: October 07, 2013, 09:15:21 AM »
Pawtucket Patriot,
Check with you insurance agent about getting a brewers bond. That's what we did, we needed one for the Feds and one for the State. "Should be easy" to increase the bond when you need to, we have not had to do that, so take "Should be easy" with a grain of salt.
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Offline Pawtucket Patriot

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #130 on: October 07, 2013, 09:27:50 AM »
Pawtucket Patriot,
Check with you insurance agent about getting a brewers bond. That's what we did, we needed one for the Feds and one for the State. "Should be easy" to increase the bond when you need to, we have not had to do that, so take "Should be easy" with a grain of salt.

Thanks for the suggestion!  I'll definitely look into that.
Matt Schwandt | Minneapolis, MN
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Offline bluesman

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #131 on: October 07, 2013, 09:35:52 AM »
Pawtucket Patriot,
Check with you insurance agent about getting a brewers bond. That's what we did, we needed one for the Feds and one for the State. "Should be easy" to increase the bond when you need to, we have not had to do that, so take "Should be easy" with a grain of salt.

Thanks for the suggestion!  I'll definitely look into that.

I got the same advice (insurance company bond) from the TTB several weeks ago. However, they (TTB) told me that a lot of small breweries put up the money themselves, because it's cheaper for them. Although, I haven't followed through on the research for this just yet.
Ron Price

Offline boulderbrewer

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #132 on: October 07, 2013, 11:05:44 AM »
Both of ours were less than a tenth of bond itself.
Tribute Brewing

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #133 on: October 07, 2013, 05:54:06 PM »
Pawtucket Patriot,
Check with you insurance agent about getting a brewers bond. That's what we did, we needed one for the Feds and one for the State. "Should be easy" to increase the bond when you need to, we have not had to do that, so take "Should be easy" with a grain of salt.

Thanks for the suggestion!  I'll definitely look into that.
Pawtucket Patriot Federal filing for us small brewers is quarterly. I think with your system you need a bigger federal bond then $1000. This bond is good for 142 BBL and I think you will want to produce and sell more then that in a quarter of the year. I would recommend to get sufficient bond that you will not have to "strengthen" it. You have to file for new bond every 4 years anyway. 

To my knowledge breweries that produce and sell more then 10,000/year have to file monthly.
Na Zdravie

On Tap At The TapRoom:
Bohemian Pilsner
Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
MaiBock
American Brown Ale
Marzen
Root beer

Offline Pawtucket Patriot

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Re: So you want to be a brewer
« Reply #134 on: October 08, 2013, 04:47:56 AM »
Hey Leos,

Actually, the TTB passed a temporary rule at the end of 2012 (which is still in effect), that reduces the bond amount for small brewers to $1,000 so long as the small brewer pays less than $50k in excise taxes in a given year.  Because the federal excise tax rate is $7 on the first 60k barrels, that $50k in taxes is equal to producing approximately 7,142 barrels per year.  We are estimating that we will produce fewer than 7,142 barrels per year for the first several years, so our initial bond rate should be $1,000.
Matt Schwandt | Minneapolis, MN
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