Author Topic: 1st all Brett beer  (Read 2441 times)

Offline 1vertical

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1st all Brett beer
« on: July 20, 2013, 04:37:04 PM »
This is my first brew with a BKyeast organism. It is the C3 isolate from Cantillon Iris beer.

OG is 1.052  Wert consist of  8# of gambrinus pils 1# of Victory and about a quart of cooked
steel cut oats and their cloudy liquid....I added about 4 dessert spoons of lactose for the brett to chew.
Hops were about 3/4 oz of Belma and 1/4 oz of Hallertau  SRM is about 7-8 color.....its in the bucket
and we shall see  how long the lag.  Anxious to see what happens, the starter liquid was at the vomit note stage....not bad but present and there was a little filmy looking pellicle? on the surface.
 
about 1/2 inch of spawn laying in the bottom of a half gallon mason jar some was white color
some had migrated to a tannish color I poured off most of the starter liquid which had cleared
fairly well and just used the yeast cake on the bottom.....fingers crossed.
 
Launch temp was in the 70's Brett likes it warm....?
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Offline 1vertical

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Re: 1st all Brett beer
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2013, 11:33:29 AM »
Looks like it is slowly beginning to ferment as I have positive pressure
showing on the s-tube bubbler from the wert side.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: 1st all Brett beer
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2013, 12:08:51 PM »
Cool! Been brewing since 95 and love Brett and still haven't made a flipping all Brett beer. I was wondering about the temp too cause I'm gonna do one soon, too. I'll probably just keep it in the low 70s.

Is it common to add lacto? Never heard of that but it makes sense. I just don't like milk stouts and that sweetness makes me gag.
Keith Y.
Self appointed "All Grain" section pruner

Offline 1vertical

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Re: 1st all Brett beer
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2013, 02:07:47 PM »
Cool! Been brewing since 95 and love Brett and still haven't made a flipping all Brett beer. I was wondering about the temp too cause I'm gonna do one soon, too. I'll probably just keep it in the low 70s.

Is it common to add lacto? Never heard of that but it makes sense. I just don't like milk stouts and that sweetness makes me gag.

Well Keith, this is a frankenbier for sure.  I had no recipe.  What is common is the "turbid mash" that
they utilize for Lambics.  I read and studied cantillon Iris and they do this beer differently. It is my
understanding that b/c of the super attenuation of the brett, the body on the end result can
be thin, hence the steel cut oats  plus the lactos addition tho I read that brett can metabolise that as well. Perhaps it was only certain strains of brett but what the heck. This is going to be months out ain't no hurry up and enjoy beer. The small addition would not be very noticeable even if it did not get eaten.   I think your lower 70's are prolly a safe bet, but after some 90 degree saisons I have
had that were great, Dmitri said, brett likes it warm. The journey continues>>>>
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Re: 1st all Brett beer
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2013, 06:00:24 PM »
Right on. Best all Brett beer I ever had was from mikkeler. Second best from Tank Deer, who used to post on here. Still does from time to time I guess.

I'll be following your adventure here. Keep us posted.
Keith Y.
Self appointed "All Grain" section pruner

Offline 1vertical

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Re: 1st all Brett beer
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2013, 07:18:03 PM »
Keith, I read Tankdeer over at Burgundian Babble Belt hope he is doing well
he sure has a dancing banana....lol
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: 1st all Brett beer
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2013, 07:57:06 PM »
Brett primary fermentations generally do not attenuate like brett in secondary. I'd be concerned that the lactose will make that beer a little too heavy if not a touch sweet.
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Offline redbeerman

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Re: 1st all Brett beer
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2013, 05:10:27 AM »
When using Brett as a primary yeast, fermentation still takes a very long time to complete.  The beer will change over time.  I strongly suggest leaving this beer in the primary for at least a couple of months.  And it will benefit from a secondary as well as the Brett will keep working for quite a while.  Ron Price may have some good input on this as well.
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Offline anthony

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Re: 1st all Brett beer
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2013, 06:48:16 AM »
When using Brett as a primary yeast, fermentation still takes a very long time to complete.  The beer will change over time.  I strongly suggest leaving this beer in the primary for at least a couple of months.  And it will benefit from a secondary as well as the Brett will keep working for quite a while.  Ron Price may have some good input on this as well.

It is my understanding that if this is the case, your pitching rate needs to be increased. This has been repeated over and over again by Chad Yakobson, Vinnie, Michael Tonsmeire (Mad Fermentationist), etc. The pitches from White Labs at least are lower than normal cell counts so if you toss them in without a starter you are way underpitching, hence the long fermentation time.

"At Crooked Stave we are doing lots of primary fermentation and I’m usually hitting 78% attenuation within 7 days on a 14 Plato or 1.056 gravity beer. Usually have 82% within a few days after that. It’s all about using the right Bretts for primary and pitching with the adequate amount of cells. Right in between an ale and lager pitching rate, so 1.25×10^6 cells per ml per degree plato for the first pitch seems to work well.. Second generations really rock and the pitch rate can be lowered. I saw a 1.090 gravity Brett porter ferment out in 10 days recently. Complexity is there but always continues to improve in the bottle and over time." --Chad

Offline 1vertical

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Re: 1st all Brett beer
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2013, 06:50:03 AM »
This morning It is fermenting very good.  I moved it out into the garage with an ambient
of 82 ish.  For the record, I used 2 quart iterations of growth on the spin plate for the
starter for a total half gallon thing.  I heard to pitch Lager quantities and I am wishing that
I would have been able to get even more spawn to pitch than I did. There was a pretty
good lag time.

I see Iris is dry hopped at Cantillon for a bit more hop presence than is normally found in
Lambic (which is mainly None). I have never had an Iris to drink tho I read on ratebeer
and it sounds good. I hope my selection of Belma brings nice qualities into the mix.

winging it >>>><<<<
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Offline redbeerman

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Re: 1st all Brett beer
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2013, 07:23:07 AM »
When using Brett as a primary yeast, fermentation still takes a very long time to complete.  The beer will change over time.  I strongly suggest leaving this beer in the primary for at least a couple of months.  And it will benefit from a secondary as well as the Brett will keep working for quite a while.  Ron Price may have some good input on this as well.

It is my understanding that if this is the case, your pitching rate needs to be increased. This has been repeated over and over again by Chad Yakobson, Vinnie, Michael Tonsmeire (Mad Fermentationist), etc. The pitches from White Labs at least are lower than normal cell counts so if you toss them in without a starter you are way underpitching, hence the long fermentation time.

"At Crooked Stave we are doing lots of primary fermentation and I’m usually hitting 78% attenuation within 7 days on a 14 Plato or 1.056 gravity beer. Usually have 82% within a few days after that. It’s all about using the right Bretts for primary and pitching with the adequate amount of cells. Right in between an ale and lager pitching rate, so 1.25×10^6 cells per ml per degree plato for the first pitch seems to work well.. Second generations really rock and the pitch rate can be lowered. I saw a 1.090 gravity Brett porter ferment out in 10 days recently. Complexity is there but always continues to improve in the bottle and over time." --Chad

Your right about the primary attenuation, but it has been my experience that the character of the beer is pretty lame early on compared to after having a number of months aging.
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Offline 1vertical

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Re: 1st all Brett beer
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2013, 08:23:12 AM »
5 Days, I snuck a little taste out of the fermenter because activity has
slowed WAY down.

All I can say is WOW.  The sugar is gone it is Complex tasting on the palate
not at all unpleasant.  I could drink it like it is but will wait for the prescribed
months in primary to pass and see where this beer goes.

No detecting of the lactose to my unrefined palate.  The hops have offset
anything that resembles sweet.  I got interesting mild grapefruit notes.

This yeast isolate is a good worker.
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Offline kramerog

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Re: 1st all Brett beer
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2013, 03:04:11 PM »
I have a no-boil Berliner Weiss that I sour-worted before pitching Brett as the only yeast.  The fermentation has slowed considerably and the gravity is about 1.006.  A split of this had an F.G. of 1.003.  How do I calculate the amount of bottling sugar so I get 3-3.5 v/v of carbonation while avoiding bottle bombs?
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Offline erockrph

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Re: 1st all Brett beer
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2013, 09:01:02 PM »
I have a no-boil Berliner Weiss that I sour-worted before pitching Brett as the only yeast.  The fermentation has slowed considerably and the gravity is about 1.006.  A split of this had an F.G. of 1.003.  How do I calculate the amount of bottling sugar so I get 3-3.5 v/v of carbonation while avoiding bottle bombs?

My votes are either:

A) Calculate as you normally would (i.e., assume you are at FG), and as soon as the carbonation hits the level you want, put them in the fridge and drink them soon.

or

B) Use champagne bottles, prime to about 3 volumes with the understanding that it may get significantly higher given enough time.
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Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: 1st all Brett beer
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2013, 10:24:34 AM »
I have a no-boil Berliner Weiss that I sour-worted before pitching Brett as the only yeast.  The fermentation has slowed considerably and the gravity is about 1.006.  A split of this had an F.G. of 1.003.  How do I calculate the amount of bottling sugar so I get 3-3.5 v/v of carbonation while avoiding bottle bombs?

I usually assume brett will work SG down to 1.002 in the bottle, so figure in the difference between your current gravity and 1.002 when calculating priming sugar weight. If you want to be conservative, just assume 1.000 as FG.

Since berliner weisse is normally consumed rather quickly (like any light wheat-based beer), I would only be concerned about additional carbonation if you're going to cellar a few bottles for 6 months or more. In that case, just fill a few heavy duty bottles.
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