Author Topic: Kitchen re-do  (Read 6020 times)

Offline phillamb168

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Kitchen re-do
« on: July 22, 2013, 03:12:35 AM »
Since we've moved to our new place I have been crazy busy, and of course have not had any time to brew due to the fact that everything is all higgeldypiggledy in the new brewing/woodworking shop. One more thing that adds to the lack-of-time is that we're planning a complete kitchen revamp.

So I'm wondering, have any of you guys remodelled your kitchen? We've bought the Norm Abram Kitchen Re-Do DVDs from New Yankee Workshop, and I'm pretty confident we'll be fine in the construction part, but do you have any thoughts on layouts? Things that you really like, or really hate, about your kitchen? Anything brewing-related that you've done?

I'd love to see pics, too, if you care to post them.

Cheers!
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Offline guido

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Re: Kitchen re-do
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2013, 07:06:00 AM »
We remodeled our kitchen last summer.  It took my wife 10 years to have it done because she was afraid that she was going to make a bad choice.  You should be able to see CG images of what the finished product will look like.  One thing we did do is to have separate a "hers" and "his" kitchen sink (I use mine for brewing, of course) to preserve domestic tranquility.
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Offline MDixon

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Re: Kitchen re-do
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2013, 07:16:33 AM »
I remodeled my kitchen about two years ago. We had been wanting to do it for about 10 years. I did everything except the cabinets and countertop. There is very little I dislike about our kitchen

The island is two bookcases (one with doors), one deep cabinet and one drawer cabinet. They were put together and the toe kick is back about 9" with feet on the corners which makes it look like a piece of furniture.

I removed the double door pantry and we put in a prep sink and moved the dishwasher to that side. I wanted double ovens, but could not make that work so I put in a convection microwave and upgraded to a 36" 6 burner dual fuel stove. When I ripped out the pantry I bumped out the wall so the fridge could recess as viewed from the family room. One of these days we will get a stainless fridge.

The flooring is hickory. I love it, but might opt for something water could not hurt if I did it again. Since we have upgraded we had the freezer defrost and have a few boards which slightly cupped and I broke a bottle of wine. Neither has caused damage, but a flooring surface which can take impact and water would be ideal.

Oh, the island cabinet is maple with an antiqued black finish and the granite is peacock green (although it appears more black). The other cabinets are parawood (rubber tree) which looks awful until it is stained and they stained it at the cabinet company. The granite on the perimeter is most likely santa cecila. Pulls other than standard will cost you a buttload. Nice thing is you only cry once. The pulls on the island are a basket weave black "football", the ones on perimiter cabinets are a solid "football" with a pewter finish, or else they are made of pewter, I forget.

If I had not done the lion's share of the work myself it would have doubled the cost and the cost was not exactly cheap. My undercabinet and uplighting is dimmable LED from Inspired LED. You really don't want to know how much that cost to have the ability to dim the lights!

Some of the nicest features are things you do not notice. Pot filler off the sink (useless, but fun), inverted sink base for the main sink (drawer at the bottom), spice rack to the left of the sink, pull out trash to the left of the stove. In the base cabinets I had them put the lower shelf as a pull out and in two of them I had them cut back the upper shelf so I could put tall items like a blender or mixer at the front of the pull out. On the fridge size the cabinets go to the ceiling which is awesome for storing things you don't routinely use. To the left of the fridge and right of the prep sink is a pantry cabinet and I had all the shelves put in as pull out. The microwave is to the right of the fridge and to the right of that is an angled cabinet where I wired an outlet into so we can charge cell phones. The island required an outlet by US code and I put in a plugmold strip on the top interior of the bookcase end. That way I did not have to mess up any of my exterior faces on the island. I wanted to do all my outlets as plugmold, but it was far too expensive.

The fridge in the before photos is in almost the exact same spot as it is in the after. I also changed out the window above the main sink and put in a larger window. I set it at a height so the countertop is the window sill.

Before




New Layout (from cabinet company)


After (does not have travertine tile backsplash installed in photos and undercabinet wiring was incomplete)






Only good shot I could locate of the fridge wall was a construction photo

« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 07:19:26 AM by MDixon »
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Kitchen re-do
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2013, 07:43:09 AM »
Pretty much everything Mike says is spot on.  We have wood flooring in our kitchen, too, and although it looks nice it's sort of a pain and requires a bit more care.  We also did peacock green counters. My wife loves the green/black color.

Think about your electric needs.  Enough outlets is important.  Switches should be conveniently located and accessible (I put one in an out of the way spot and it will piss me off forever).  I also wired in a spot for a kitchen computer.  It's great for recipes, looking stuff up, etc.  Essential, as far as I'm concerned.

You can never have enough counter space.  More than layout (the triangle, or whatever) I think ample counter space is what makes the kitchen usable.

Lighting.  Under counter lights are a must.  Uplighting if you want it.

A second row of cabinets like Mike did that go to the ceiling is great for storage.  It's essentially free space and to me looks a lot better than a soffit.  We've got seasonal coffee mugs and crystal and things like that which you don't use often stored up out of reach, but available.  The pantry cabinet is also an awesome thing.  I went with the one that has the fold-out shelving, rather than the sliding shelving.

Windows and natural light are also important.  We have an eat-in kitchen and the table looks out over the back yard.  Essentially the whole south end of our kitchen is glass.  We love it.  A window at the sink is great, too.  Our original window was actually much like Mike's but we downsized it to two casements windows.  The window ledge is a convenient place for plants, sprouting avocado seeds, etc.

I probably planned the kitchen for two years before I did the work.  Run through all of your options on paper so that you don't second guess yourself after the cabinets are hung and the walls are tiled.

It's the most used room in our house, so for us it was important to get it right.

Not sure I'd spend extra for the convection microwave.  I haven't been too pleased with ours.  It just doesn't seem to perform as it should...  but we also don't use it much.
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Offline metron-brewer

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Re: Kitchen re-do
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2013, 07:48:09 AM »
While we just did the demolition on our kitchen redo, so I can't speak to the actual remodel. We did have custom cabinets made and since my wife an I are a little on the taller side, we had the cabinets made 2" higher than normal. Best thing we ever did, no more back aches. It makes it very nice for kneading dough and pasta. We also did a double sink with one side bigger, great for washing larger pots etc.
Ron
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Offline phillamb168

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Re: Kitchen re-do
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2013, 08:32:34 AM »
Holy cow, thanks so much for the awesome responses so far! Also MDixon THANK YOU for mentioning the pot-filler. Wife thinks they're stupid, but I think it's absolutely awesome and is one of those things that helps make a kitchen look custom IMO.

Do you use all six burners? I want a 6-burner range, too, but am unsure if we even have the space for it - We can do 42" or so fairly easily but anything bigger will sacrifice mucho counterspace.
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Offline Alewyfe

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Re: Kitchen re-do
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2013, 09:26:42 AM »

I've gutted and remodeled 2 kitchens so far. After doing the first one, which I loved so much, I was nervous that the new one would never work as well. It turned out even better. My space was kind of small, no room for and island or anything like that. I wanted 2 ovens and gave up lower cabinet space to have them.
One is a 6 burner dual fuel Thermidor, it's only 36", but the oven is massive. It will take a full sheet pan.
The other oven is a built in 30". I also have a pot filler - don't use it as much as I could, but forget it's there. I do appreciate it come canning time when using huge pots. Another thing I did because of limited space is get a full size refrigerator...no freezer compartment. I have a pantry in the laundry/mud room, just a few steps from the kitchen, and I have 2 large freezers in there. I added bay windows both above the sink, and in the dinette area. The one above the sink is great for plants, etc. and the one in the dinette doubles as part of the seating allowing us to push the table back from center and use the opposite wall for a mini fridge and bar sink that helps keep people out of the small kitchen area when entertaining.

Also, no microwave in the kitchen. That too is back in the pantry as it only gets used rarely. Left more overhead counters in kitchen area.

Last but not least, all under the upper cabinets has plug mould running full length. Never at a loss to find a plug in my kitchen, plus you don't have the receptacles ruining the look of the tile backsplash.

If you use your kitchen as hard as we do and have a wood floor, which we do, you'd better get used to the distressed look. You are going to dent and scrape it eventually.

Worst thing I did was let my lighting guy put in halogen undercounter light. I didn't want them, I wanted flourescent, but said he couldn't find any. (he didn't really try and I was impatient) Halogen are hot. A pain in the summer when you are trying to do pastry work. Fortunately, the kitchen is pretty bright without them.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Kitchen re-do
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2013, 09:30:04 AM »
Halogen are hot. A pain in the summer

Are they ever.  On the plus side, they help keep the betta warm in the winter.

I have only myself to blame for oversights and omissions, though.
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Offline MDixon

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Re: Kitchen re-do
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2013, 09:33:54 AM »
Our 6 burner is actually a 7 burner and it is not a commercial grade. It is a dual fuel Bertazzoni from Italy and has some really cool features. I looked up the burners:
Semi-rapid
(3) 6500 Btu/h
Rapid
(1) 11000 Btu/h
Dual Wok
(1) 18000 Btu/h (this one has an inner ring and an outer ring)
Auxiliary
(1) 3400 Btu/h

My wife likes to hone in on the 11K burner. I typically use one of the 6.5K or the inner or outer of the dual wok. The Aux is great for simmering something. In truth we probably never use more than 4 at a time even with multiple sauces or dishes.

I'd think about that pot filler. They are not inexpensive and really are not needed.

If you have a spice cabinet it is actually better to keep it away from the stove/oven and lower is better than higher. We had a nice little space next to the sink which worked out stellar.



I should mention I had to get a low profile disposal for the inverted sink base and by the time I figured out my measurements I only had about an inch to play with since I was using the existing drain location. There is a ton to figure out when you are doing it yourself.

Another nice thing is I got rid of the wall switches for the disposal and put in air switches. You can see one of them in this window/sink photo:


 - -

Joe Sr. - the convection microwave we ended up with is a Kenmore Elite (Sears) and I got an extended warranty (something I never do). They are a problematic item for sure and the reviews for most suck. Ours is great, but we really only use the oven part for frozen pizza.

- -

Alewyfe - if you ever decide to get rid of your undercabinet and don't care about them being dimmable, look at Inspired LED http://inspiredled.com/Shop-by-Project/kitchen-lighting

I did uplighting with normal bright, undercabinet with super bright and then lit our bar sink with ultra bright. Dimming them makes it expensive because you need a transformer and a dimmer switch. I looks like now he has some cheaper options. For the single ultra bright I got a cheap transformer from overseas and a rotary dimmer which is hidden. The undercabinet and uplighting each have a dimmable transformer and each has it's own dimmer. That alone added $200 to the cost of the lights! Ouchy!

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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Kitchen re-do
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2013, 09:40:53 AM »
Joe Sr. - the convection microwave we ended up with is a Kenmore Elite (Sears) and I got an extended warranty (something I never do). They are a problematic item for sure and the reviews for most suck. Ours is great, but we really only use the oven part for frozen pizza.

We probably have the same model.  I installed it initially and it was so loud I couldn't stand to be in the kitchen when it was on.  Tech came out and said he could repair it or replace the entire unit (this was maybe a week old) so I went with replacement.  Overall it works great, I don't think it gets as hot as it is supposed to.  I've only used the convection part for cookies and for bourbon glazed sweet potatoes.

The convection micro was an upgrade after a babysitter/nanny set fire to the old micro (which worked great, dammit!)

You are spot on about the spice rack (I even use the same Krups coffee grinder you have for my spices) as well as the pot filler.  We don't have a pot filler, but from what I hear they wind up being more ornamental than useful for most people.
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Offline MDixon

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Re: Kitchen re-do
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2013, 09:55:30 AM »
I actually got the Kenmore because it was the lowest priced convection microwave and I could get a trim kit for it. It was like pulling teeth to get information about microwaves which are built in and you need that in order to get the right cabinet. In the end the information I was given was wrong and so the microwave cabinet was bumped out by our cabinet installer so we could cut out the back and make the back of the microwave fit. It wasn't off by much, but it was off.

- -

another thought, my cabinet installer used special screws to fasten the cabinet to the wall. Most use drywall screws. If you are having the work done by someone else, be sure they are using good quality screws and not drywall screws for the installation of the cabinets. Our guy was a pure pro. It took him three 12 hour days to put in our cabinets and I have found little to nothing wrong with his work.

I believe he used screws similar to these:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2020612/23019/10-x-212-highpoint-cabinet-installation-screws-washer-head-combo-drive-zinc-100piece.aspx
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Kitchen re-do
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2013, 10:01:47 AM »
Good call on the screws.  Dry-wall screws get very narrow right before the head and can snap.

I think I used deck screws, but I don't recall for sure.  I definitely used finish washers.  With all the 2x6 backing I put in the walls I'm probably over-built but better safe than sorry.
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Offline gmac

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Re: Kitchen re-do
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2013, 11:54:14 AM »
Redoing ours right now and the one thing I was adamant about was that I didn't want any lower cupboards, only drawers. Pain in the ass getting down on your knees to find something way in the back of a cupboard so it's all gonna be drawers. Big drawers.
Old house had one cupboard with pull out shelves but really they were just drawers that wasted a lot of space and weren't deep enough.
And +1 on outlets. Can't have too many in my opinion.

Offline phillamb168

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Re: Kitchen re-do
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2013, 12:59:53 PM »
Here are a few photos of the space, plus a (very) (very) basic SketchUp that we did to get an idea of how we'd reorganize. You can see in the sketchup the false wall we did so we don't have that stupid empty space behind the cooktop.

The spot where the fridge is currently used to be the only access into the kitchen before the previous tenants opened up that giant doorway, which we love. So behind the fridge it's just a closed door. We're going to box it all out and put a door on it and turn it into a small pantry.

The fridge in the new kitchen will be to the left of the sink



Sketchup:







« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 01:08:46 PM by phillamb168 »
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Offline tonyp

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Re: Kitchen re-do
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2013, 01:54:08 PM »
outlets! outlets! outlets! If there was one thing our kitchen needs more of its outlets! don't skimp on the outlets!

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