Author Topic: Grain for color in a Saison?  (Read 1544 times)

Offline yso191

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Grain for color in a Saison?
« on: July 24, 2013, 10:37:39 AM »
I'm going to take another run at a Saison.  The recipe is a little light on color, so I'd like to add some and preferably an orange hue.  The only orange-color producing malts I came across are Victory (not enough color) and Special Roast (not the flavor profile I'm looking for).  So I am currently going with Caramunich (no orange, but fits style-wise and adds color).

So right now it is sitting like this for 5 gallon batch (1.050 OG; 20 IBU; 5.7 SRM; 5% ABV):

6 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 61.1 %
2 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 20.4 %
8.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.1 %
5.3 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.4 %
5.3 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 5 3.4 %
3.2 oz Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.0 %

What do you think?  Suggestions?
Steve

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Grain for color in a Saison?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2013, 10:58:07 AM »
I've been enjoying a healthy % of... wait for it...

munich malt in my saisons. right around 20%.

the saison yeast and some added simple sugar will ensure that the munich doesn't make things too malty but it gives a lovely orange hint to the color and a little more complexity in malt profile.
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Offline redbeerman

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Re: Grain for color in a Saison?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2013, 12:05:14 PM »
I've been enjoying a healthy % of... wait for it...

munich malt in my saisons. right around 20%.

the saison yeast and some added simple sugar will ensure that the munich doesn't make things too malty but it gives a lovely orange hint to the color and a little more complexity in malt profile.

I did this with one I have Brett working on right now.  It works well.
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Offline yso191

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Re: Grain for color in a Saison?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2013, 12:28:00 PM »
Thanks, I'll do it!
Steve

Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: Grain for color in a Saison?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2013, 12:28:12 PM »
I've been enjoying a healthy % of... wait for it...

munich malt in my saisons. right around 20%.

the saison yeast and some added simple sugar will ensure that the munich doesn't make things too malty but it gives a lovely orange hint to the color and a little more complexity in malt profile.

+1: Munich is a really nice addition to Saison.

Belgian pale ale malt is a bit darker than US pale (just above 3L). If you use Belgian Pale as a base, it may give you enough color. Its a great malt, too: think Palm.
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Re: Grain for color in a Saison?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2013, 12:39:08 PM »
I've been enjoying a healthy % of... wait for it...

munich malt in my saisons. right around 20%.

the saison yeast and some added simple sugar will ensure that the munich doesn't make things too malty but it gives a lovely orange hint to the color and a little more complexity in malt profile.

+1: Munich is a really nice addition to Saison.

Belgian pale ale malt is a bit darker than US pale (just above 3L). If you use Belgian Pale as a base, it may give you enough color. Its a great malt, too: think Palm.
+1 to Munich in Saison.  I put it in my last 2 saisons.
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Offline Mark G

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Re: Grain for color in a Saison?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2013, 02:50:12 PM »
I've been enjoying a healthy % of... wait for it...

munich malt in my saisons. right around 20%.

the saison yeast and some added simple sugar will ensure that the munich doesn't make things too malty but it gives a lovely orange hint to the color and a little more complexity in malt profile.
Yep, this is what I do too. I don't have the recipe in front of me, but I think it's close to 15% Munich. I'd avoid any cara/crystal malts.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Grain for color in a Saison?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2013, 09:21:56 PM »
Another choice would be Aromatic. It might be too much if you you used enough of it to get you all the way to orange on its own, but if you combo with some Vienna or Munich you'll get there. I love it in my saison, it adds a nice depth to the malt bill.
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Offline dbeechum

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Re: Grain for color in a Saison?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2013, 10:27:45 AM »
I usually either use munich or a touch of caravienne.
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Offline tony perkins

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Re: Grain for color in a Saison?
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2013, 07:09:49 AM »
I just bottled a saison that I brewed as an experiment: 1) extract, since I haven't made an extract batch in a couple of years, and 2) adding a 1/2 lb of crystal 40, since I've never tried crystal malt in a saison and wanted to see if I liked the flavor.  Those ingredients got me to about 7 SRM, and with 2 ounces of Midnight Wheat at 550 L, I reached 12 SRM.

The saison attenuated down to 1.010, not terribly shabby.  I can't comment fully on the flavor yet, but I can recommend 2 ounces of Midnight Wheat for an easy color adjustment.  There is virtually no flavor contribution in such a small amount.  Even a saison made from 100% belgian pilsner will reach 10 SRM if you add 2 ounces of Midnight Wheat.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Grain for color in a Saison?
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2013, 07:36:40 AM »
I would also go with munich but aromatic would be another reasonable option. Caravienne or caramunich would be ok but I don't like to add sweetness to my saisons.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Grain for color in a Saison?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2013, 12:20:54 PM »
I just finished cleaning up after brewing a Saison this morning.  I used the Weyermann 20L Dark Munich at 14% of the grist to move the color to a little over 6 SRM.  That is just within the style's color range.  All the rest of the grist is 2L or 3L grains. 

Why the desire to increase the color?  All the commercial examples I've seen probably weren't over 8 or 9 SRM.
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: Grain for color in a Saison?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2013, 10:11:16 AM »
+11 to Munich in a saison.

Ah, who am I kidding, I use that stuff in everything!
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Offline yso191

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Re: Grain for color in a Saison?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2013, 10:32:40 AM »
I'm pretty sure my LHBS doesn't have Dark Munich.  That seems like a great solution though!

I am wondering when a grain becomes noticeable palate-wise.  I'm still not wanting to give up on the orange color thing, so am wondering if 5 oz. of Special Roast in my 5 gallon batch would muddle the clean flavor that is a higher priority to me than orange color is.

Without the 5 oz. of Special Roast, the color is at 3.8 SRM.  By adding it, it bumps it to 5.3 SRM.

So here is the current recipe with the Special Roast:

4 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)      57.6 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)                   19.2 %
8.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)                         6.4 %
5.0 oz Special Roast (50.0 SRM)                        4.0 %

Thoughts?
Steve

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Grain for color in a Saison?
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2013, 11:00:57 AM »
I agree with others that Munich is the way to go in this case.

However as a general rule, I'll often adjust color for any beer by adding an ounce of chocolate malt or black patent.  You might be worried that it will cause roasty flavors, but... at only one ounce in 5 gallons?  You ain't going to taste it at all, I promise you.  It won't turn the beer black or gray or anything like that either.  In this small amount t will turn the beer slightly more orange or red, depending of course on the rest of the grist.
Dave

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