Author Topic: Saison per Wyeast  (Read 5459 times)

Offline dcb

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2014, 06:00:33 PM »
One thing I did with mine was to swirl the bucket a bit each morning to rouse the yeast.  It made me feel good at the time but the beer is cloudy enough that I now doubt that having the yeast fall out of suspension was a real danger.   My activity slowed dramatically at about a week and a half but I stayed the course at it kept going.   This one batch is the total of my experience with this yeast, but for whatever it's worth that's how it went for me. 


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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2014, 10:27:08 AM »
Can anyone provide any anecdotal evidence that pitching WL 565 into 90F wort and fermenting immediately at that temp will also speed up the primary fermentation time as with WY 3724 without any fusel alcohol notes or other off flavors?

Offline 69franx

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2014, 07:54:48 PM »
So my 3724 seems to have stalled despite pitching and keeping at 90. OG of 1.051, and 12 days in was only down to 1.026. I have bucket ferm wrapped with Johnson A419(?) set at 90. Any thoughts, should I have had it set a little lower to account for fermentation heating it up? What's my next step now? Rack to a secondary with 05/001/1056? I did read that first pitch if this is usually difficult, but can't see saving for re-pitch if I finish with another yeast unless I secondary.

Edit: 10 days later and the 3724 has been working like crazy. Took a reading tonight: 1.004@90 degrees, Beersmith corrects this to 1.008, only 1 point to go. Waiting it out was the key, I should have known!
Due to other responsibilities, I am going to give it till the weekend before I check it again, then crash for 3 days, bring it back up to room temp and hopefully bottle the weekend of the 25th-27. Not having made a saison before, and thus first time with this yeast, does that sound like a good plan? Or should I skip the crash, or any other changes?

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Fermenting: Ringler Pilsner
Conditioning: The Queen's Diamonds EBW, German Themed IPA
In Bottles: House IPA
In the works: You're my Hero Hazelnut Double Brown

Offline dcb

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2014, 06:07:53 AM »
I didn't crash in my primary because I'm not set up for it.  But my beer is fairly hazy (not as much as a lot of heffes but not sparkling clear either) which I attribute to the low flocculation of the 3724.   I've left bottles still in the fridge for a few days and tried to pour carefully, but the beer doesn't get any clearer, even after warming up a bit.  Which is all to say that if you're cold crashing to aid in clarity, it won't hurt but I'll be surprised if you get the results you're hoping for.

Please follow up and let us know what happens!

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2014, 06:28:18 AM »
I didn't crash in my primary because I'm not set up for it.  But my beer is fairly hazy (not as much as a lot of heffes but not sparkling clear either) which I attribute to the low flocculation of the 3724.   I've left bottles still in the fridge for a few days and tried to pour carefully, but the beer doesn't get any clearer, even after warming up a bit.  Which is all to say that if you're cold crashing to aid in clarity, it won't hurt but I'll be surprised if you get the results you're hoping for.

Please follow up and let us know what happens!

IMO some of my best saisons have a bit of haze. I never seek/want a turbid beer, but just like a hefe that falls clear loses some of its yeast character, I feel the same way about saison - just a touch of haze, not a lot.
Jon H.

Offline 69franx

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2014, 06:42:12 AM »
Thanks guys, might get it into bottles this weekend then, since I need the fermenter if I want to brew this weekend as well


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In Bottles: House IPA
In the works: You're my Hero Hazelnut Double Brown

Offline 69franx

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2014, 08:44:10 AM »
Hey all, I'm looking for bottling suggestions on this brew. My OG was 1.051, finishing at 1.007/8. ran ferm at 90 degrees. My batch size into fermenter was almost 5.25 gallons(more than 5, less than 5.5.)I will be bottling in 22oz Stone Bombers(as are almost all my batches), so I have "sturdy" bottles. Questions arising are:
1. What carb level should I aim for on this brew?
2. As an example, for 2.9 volumes, Beersmith suggests 5.26oz while brewer's friend.com suggests 6.6oz corn sugar due to the high fermentation temp.
3. I guess what I really want to know, as this is my first saison, is where should I aim for, what is safe in these bottles, and if highest temp reached during ferm can make such a big difference, why doesn't beersmith account for temp in its calculations?
Any ideas would be most helpful, especially in preventing bottle bombs!
Earlier in this thread, dcb states that he carbed to 3.5 volumes in bombers, but beersmith really does not like that level for this brew, so I am feeling lost on where to go here
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 08:47:39 AM by 69franx »
Frank Laske
Franx Brew Works
Fermenting: Ringler Pilsner
Conditioning: The Queen's Diamonds EBW, German Themed IPA
In Bottles: House IPA
In the works: You're my Hero Hazelnut Double Brown

Offline kramerog

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2014, 04:01:59 PM »
I carbed my last saison to 3 volumes and some bottles cracked.  I don't know how strong the Stone bomber bottles are, but I suspect that they are stronger than the ones that blew. IIRC 3-3.5 vols are what are called for.  2.8 vols is the design pressure for a lot of bottles.  I think you can get by with 2.8.   

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Offline 69franx

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2014, 04:29:50 PM »
Thanks I will shoot for 2.8 then


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Frank Laske
Franx Brew Works
Fermenting: Ringler Pilsner
Conditioning: The Queen's Diamonds EBW, German Themed IPA
In Bottles: House IPA
In the works: You're my Hero Hazelnut Double Brown

Offline dcb

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2014, 06:07:49 PM »
I chose 3.5 vol based on this thread:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=15376.0

But looking back at my logs, I primed to 3 vol, not 3.5.  My mistake.  I primed with 6.4 oz corn sugar in 5.3 gal per BrewersFriend. 

This is the fizziest brew I've made, and I will admit to some sphincter puckering when choosing that carb level because I worried whether the bottles could take it.  So far, no explosions, and with the warmth here I've had a couple of bottles sitting at 80F for a brief period. 

Offline 69franx

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2014, 07:18:22 PM »
I may bump up to 3vol then, thanks dcb
Frank Laske
Franx Brew Works
Fermenting: Ringler Pilsner
Conditioning: The Queen's Diamonds EBW, German Themed IPA
In Bottles: House IPA
In the works: You're my Hero Hazelnut Double Brown

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #56 on: July 18, 2014, 01:18:57 PM »
Hey all, I'm looking for bottling suggestions on this brew. My OG was 1.051, finishing at 1.007/8. ran ferm at 90 degrees. My batch size into fermenter was almost 5.25 gallons(more than 5, less than 5.5.)I will be bottling in 22oz Stone Bombers(as are almost all my batches), so I have "sturdy" bottles. Questions arising are:
1. What carb level should I aim for on this brew?
2. As an example, for 2.9 volumes, Beersmith suggests 5.26oz while brewer's friend.com suggests 6.6oz corn sugar due to the high fermentation temp.
3. I guess what I really want to know, as this is my first saison, is where should I aim for, what is safe in these bottles, and if highest temp reached during ferm can make such a big difference, why doesn't beersmith account for temp in its calculations?
Any ideas would be most helpful, especially in preventing bottle bombs!
Earlier in this thread, dcb states that he carbed to 3.5 volumes in bombers, but beersmith really does not like that level for this brew, so I am feeling lost on where to go here

As far as I understand it (based on Brewing Classic Style priming sugar nomograph chart), the amount of priming sugar is strictly based on the temperature of the beer at the time of bottling.  It does not say anything with regards to fermentation temperatures. 

BTW, I have bottled upwards of 3.6 volumes in the s***ty home-brew shop bottles with no ill effects.  I do keep my bottles cold after packaging though. 

Offline Kinetic

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2014, 01:55:12 PM »
The NB calculator attempts to account for CO2 lost during fermentation due to temperature.  Beersmith does not.

My advice is to average the two sugar values from the different calculators at 2.6 volumes.  This should produce good bubbles without being a foam bomb.

Offline 69franx

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2014, 09:16:21 PM »
Thanks to all, I am now planning on 5.9 oz corn sugar targeting a median value of brewer's friend and beersmith calls for 5 gallons at 2.8 vols at 80 degrees. The beer was fermented at 90(3724) for 3.5 weeks to get within 1 point of expected FG of 1.007 before I turned off the heat. It was still at 1.008 5 days after first reading there. Brewers friend highly suggests using ferm temp as priming calc point unless cold crashing which I'm not doing. I did kill the heat, 3 days before bottling so it will be about 70 degrees upon bottling


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Frank Laske
Franx Brew Works
Fermenting: Ringler Pilsner
Conditioning: The Queen's Diamonds EBW, German Themed IPA
In Bottles: House IPA
In the works: You're my Hero Hazelnut Double Brown

Offline narcout

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #59 on: July 19, 2014, 09:50:13 AM »
I decided to give this a try as well and pitched around 1:00 a.m. this morning in the upper 80's (which made for a really excellent 2:00 a.m. baby feeding). 

It's about 8.5 hours later now, and it's just cranking at 91 degrees.

I was surprised at how quickly the yeast dropped out when I chilled the starter.