Author Topic: Saison per Wyeast  (Read 1864 times)

Offline AmandaK

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2013, 08:18:08 AM »
What size heater are you using?

This heater is magical: http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/electric-fermentation-heater.html.

It's called the FermWrap. I have it wired to a two-stage Ranco inside a wine cooler. That setup works quite well for any beer from lagers to Belgians.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2013, 08:21:15 AM »
I've thought about those, but am leaning towards the no-cost solution of trying to use things that are laying around.  Like the aquarium heater and a tub of water.

At some point, I'll need to get a decent heater and a temp controller for it and when that happens maybe I'll use 3724 again.  But not until then.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2013, 08:30:46 AM »
What size heater are you using?

This heater is magical: http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/electric-fermentation-heater.html.

It's called the FermWrap. I have it wired to a two-stage Ranco inside a wine cooler. That setup works quite well for any beer from lagers to Belgians.
My Fermwrap burned out and I never got around to replacing it, so I got a wild hair and went MacGyver. Worked out though.
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Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2013, 10:21:37 AM »
Did you make the starter at 90F or around normal starter temps?
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2013, 10:29:47 AM »
Did you make the starter at 90F or around normal starter temps?
Should have mentioned that. I made the starter @ 90F and placed it in the heated water bath in the tub, to keep temps as consistent as possible. I had airlock bubbles in ~ 6 hours.
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Offline yso191

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2013, 12:39:21 PM »
BTW - I LOVE Nelson Sauvin in a saison. Match made in heaven.

I love this idea!  I am going to be doing a Saison on the light end of the spectrum:
20 IBU
6 SRM
5 ABV

With the following spices:
0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.50 oz Seeds of Paradise (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.25 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 mins)

I have 1 oz. of Hallertauer slated for late additions.  Given all the above, how much Nelson Sauvin do you recommend for replacing the Hallertauer?
Steve

Offline AmandaK

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2013, 01:02:44 PM »
BTW - I LOVE Nelson Sauvin in a saison. Match made in heaven.

I love this idea!  I am going to be doing a Saison on the light end of the spectrum:
20 IBU
6 SRM
5 ABV

With the following spices:
0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.50 oz Seeds of Paradise (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.25 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 mins)

I have 1 oz. of Hallertauer slated for late additions.  Given all the above, how much Nelson Sauvin do you recommend for replacing the Hallertauer?

Since I've been asked for in via PM a couple times, here's my general Saison recipe:

90% Pilsner
10% Munich
aim for 1.048-1.050
20 IBU Willamette @ 60'
1 oz Nelson Sauvin @ 20'
1 oz Nelson Sauvin @ 0'
WLP565 or WY3724, depending on my mood/inventory

I've also replaced the Nelson Sauvin with Amarillo to good effect. I may try a full on 'clone' of Tank 7 next spring because of it.
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Online kramerog

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2013, 01:11:10 PM »
I've thought about those, but am leaning towards the no-cost solution of trying to use things that are laying around.  Like the aquarium heater and a tub of water.

At some point, I'll need to get a decent heater and a temp controller for it and when that happens maybe I'll use 3724 again.  But not until then.

75 W is big enough for heating up a water bath containing 10 gals of beer 20 degrees above ambient temp IME with one data point, my first and only saison using DuPont yeast so far. 

A good aquarium heater provides pretty control of fermentation temp, generally within 1 deg F.  As you deviate further and further from ambient the water bath temp and the ferm temp can vary up to 2 deg F if the water bath is shallow relative to the fermenter.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 01:15:18 PM by kramerog »
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Offline duboman

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2013, 02:44:06 PM »
Jon, I'm glad you did this! What was the pitch rate/aeration method?

Also, WLP565 and WY3724 are definitely not the same strain. For me (when following the 75* 2 days, 80* 2-3 days, 85-90* to finish schedule) the WLP565 is a bit more spicy/peppery than the WY3724 which is quite fruity under that same schedule. I need to do more experiments with this, but that's been my take-away in the 4 saisons I've done this summer - two with WY, two with WLP.

BTW - I LOVE Nelson Sauvin in a saison. Match made in heaven.

So I contacted both Wyeast and Whitelabs today to ask about the two strains and whether they could confirm that both are the same. Neither would confirm nor deny that they were outright and stated that they were either not privy to the other's origin or genetic testing has not been conducted but there was one interesting reply from John at Whitelabs:
Hi Gary,

    I don't know what strain the 3724 yeast is so I cannot say if it's the same, but chances are that even if they started out as the same strain, there is bound to be some mutation/drift between the two companies over the years so they may be slightly different now.  I have no information about the origin of the 3724 so I can't even say if they started out the same or not, however every fermentation is unique and can produce different flavors.  I'd say just stick to the one you like the best!

    Cheers!


So it seems to make sense that there is the possibility that even if the two strains were at one point identical there is the possibility that they are now possibly slightly different.
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Offline schulste

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2013, 02:30:37 AM »
I am so glad that this topic came up! I have been babysitting a WY3724 saison fermentation since the end of April. It stalled when the temperatures dropped below 70 °F in the utility room, picked up again once we had a heat wave at the end of May, and a week ago it was sitting at 0.005 above FG. It tasted great and I can't wait to keg it. So next time I am definitely going to use the 90 °F water bath. Thanks for the tip.

Offline narvin

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2013, 07:17:07 AM »
If you have a digital temperature controller, you can switch it to heating mode and use it with a heating pad or desk lamp with a small (25w or so) light bulb in your fermentation chamber.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2013, 07:46:31 AM »
I recently picked up something very similar to fermwrap but it's designed to heat reptile cages. Basically the same heating element but about half the cost of fermwrap. I flip my digital temp controller to heat and plug it in.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/12-heat-tape

I have a small one for one gallon jugs and a large one for my bucket. I've used both to take a saison from around 75 at ambient to 90.
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