Author Topic: Saison per Wyeast  (Read 5729 times)

Offline dcb

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2014, 06:23:05 AM »
Thanks. I want to try a couple of saisons next and could easily arrange the schedule for repitching.  I'm going to first try the "lighter version" above by AmandaK and yso191, which should be ready by Summer.  After that I want to try a brett saison (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/saison-brett-255734/) which will have to sit quite a bit longer.  This will be my first foray into something other than standard APA/IPA style, but fear is slowly giving way to confidence, and it will be fun.

Offline euge

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2014, 06:41:41 AM »
I pitched wlp 570 into 12 gallons of wort once it had cooled to 96F. The fermenter was an Igloo ice-cube cooler and I just closed the lid and let her rip. Beer was just fine without any off flavors, fusels or aggressive phenolicky character. Good to know about the 3724 strain as I've experienced "the Stall" several times with it. I have no psychological problem with pitching yeast at 90F.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline dcb

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2014, 05:28:12 PM »
On May 10, I brewed a saison basically taking Amanda's base recipe and adding .5 oz of fresh cracked black pepper and 1 oz of fresh tangerine peel to the last 5 minutes of the boil.  I bottled it two weeks ago, and am enjoying the first bottle now.  My wife and I love it.

This has been an adventure and an education, though, on several respects.  My OG was 1.051, but the 3724 cranked away for 6 full weeks at 90F.  I almost ran out of nerve, and had to get ahold of myself to leave it at 90 the whole time.  I kept my hands out of it until the airlock went silent, and it bottomed out at 1.080.

One interesting thing (to me, anyway) is that neither of us taste the pepper at all.  We might taste the orange, but overall we pick up more of a bright, lemony taste than orange.  When this first started to ferment, I could smell the black pepper through the airlock.  It faded over time, though, and I get no sign of it now.  The Nelson Sauvignon white wine taste is the most prevalent, though very much in balance.  I would be interested in strategies to bring a bit of the black pepper into the finished beer.

Another interesting thing is that when I tasted it at bottling two weeks ago, I could taste the typical Belgian banana and bubble gum esters.  Today there is no bubble gum and just a whiff of banana.  I can't believe the difference two weeks made.

I also didn't know whether it would carbonate satisfactorily given that the yeast clearly love 90F.  I primed it for 3.5 volumes (not willing to risk higher in my plain brown bombers) and left it at about 70F for two weeks it worked just fine.

Could there be a better hobby?


Offline 69franx

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2014, 07:21:18 PM »

On May 10, I brewed a saison basically taking Amanda's base recipe and adding .5 oz of fresh cracked black pepper and 1 oz of fresh tangerine peel to the last 5 minutes of the boil.  I bottled it two weeks ago, and am enjoying the first bottle now.  My wife and I love it.

This has been an adventure and an education, though, on several respects.  My OG was 1.051, but the 3724 cranked away for 6 full weeks at 90F.  I almost ran out of nerve, and had to get ahold of myself to leave it at 90 the whole time.  I kept my hands out of it until the airlock went silent, and it bottomed out at 1.080.

One interesting thing (to me, anyway) is that neither of us taste the pepper at all.  We might taste the orange, but overall we pick up more of a bright, lemony taste than orange.  When this first started to ferment, I could smell the black pepper through the airlock.  It faded over time, though, and I get no sign of it now.  The Nelson Sauvignon white wine taste is the most prevalent, though very much in balance.  I would be interested in strategies to bring a bit of the black pepper into the finished beer.

Another interesting thing is that when I tasted it at bottling two weeks ago, I could taste the typical Belgian banana and bubble gum esters.  Today there is no bubble gum and just a whiff of banana.  I can't believe the difference two weeks made.

I also didn't know whether it would carbonate satisfactorily given that the yeast clearly love 90F.  I primed it for 3.5 volumes (not willing to risk higher in my plain brown bombers) and left it at about 70F for two weeks it worked just fine.

Could there be a better hobby?


Thanks dcb for this info. I also made this beer and it's been fermenting at 90 for one week. I was wondering about conditioning temps, now I know



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Frank Laske
Franx Brew Works
Fermenting: Saison (w Belle Saison) on raspberries, Saison with 3724&3711
Conditioning: The Queen's Diamonds EBW
In Bottles: House IPA, German Themed IPA,  Ringler Pilsner,
In the works: You're my Hero Hazelnut Double Brown

Offline troybinso

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2014, 08:55:43 PM »



One interesting thing (to me, anyway) is that neither of us taste the pepper at all.  We might taste the orange, but overall we pick up more of a bright, lemony taste than orange.  When this first started to ferment, I could smell the black pepper through the airlock.  It faded over time, though, and I get no sign of it now.  The Nelson Sauvignon white wine taste is the most prevalent, though very much in balance.  I would be interested in strategies to bring a bit of the black pepper into the finished beer.



I recently made a Saison and added a tincture of black pepper, cardamom, and grains of paradise soaked in vodka. I added this to taste art kegging so I could control the amount. It came out great.


Offline dcb

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2014, 09:27:37 PM »
I recently made a Saison and added a tincture of black pepper, cardamom, and grains of paradise soaked in vodka. I added this to taste art kegging so I could control the amount. It came out great.

Could you post details of your tincture, speaking to someone who's never done it?  How much of each spice, soaked in how much vodka, and for how long?  And about how much of this did you end up adding to your beer?  I get the generalities of the process but don't understand where to start in terms of quantities.

Offline troybinso

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2014, 08:14:29 AM »
I recently made a Saison and added a tincture of black pepper, cardamom, and grains of paradise soaked in vodka. I added this to taste art kegging so I could control the amount. It came out great.

Could you post details of your tincture, speaking to someone who's never done it?  How much of each spice, soaked in how much vodka, and for how long?  And about how much of this did you end up adding to your beer?  I get the generalities of the process but don't understand where to start in terms of quantities.

I cracked 1 gram of grains of paradise, 1 gram of cardamom, and 2 grams of black pepper and soaked them in about 4 ounces of vodka. I let them sit in there for a few days, but based on the aroma, I think a few hours would have been sufficient. I then dosed a few measured tasters of the cold, uncarbonated beer with different measured amounts of the tincture. I don't remember the details on that, but it was something like a couple of ml of tincture to a couple of ounces of beer. When I decided which one I liked best it turned out that I would need to add the entire 4 ounces of vodka to the batch (and maybe a little more if I had had it) to reach that level of flavor in the 5 gallon volume of beer, so I just put it all in and called it good. I strained it through some cheescloth covering a straining and it kept the little bits of spices out of the keg.

The flavor is noticeable but not overpowering. I did something similar with fresh orange peel and coriander. It is a nice way to split a batch of saison.

Offline dcb

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2014, 09:06:51 AM »
Thanks-- this is plenty to get me going.  I'm thinking I'll make a bit if this and try siring the finished beer.   


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Offline 69franx

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2014, 06:15:31 PM »
So my 3724 seems to have stalled despite pitching and keeping at 90. OG of 1.051, and 12 days in was only down to 1.026. I have bucket ferm wrapped with Johnson A419(?) set at 90. Any thoughts, should I have had it set a little lower to account for fermentation heating it up? What's my next step now? Rack to a secondary with 05/001/1056? I did read that first pitch if this is usually difficult, but can't see saving for re-pitch if I finish with another yeast unless I secondary.


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Frank Laske
Franx Brew Works
Fermenting: Saison (w Belle Saison) on raspberries, Saison with 3724&3711
Conditioning: The Queen's Diamonds EBW
In Bottles: House IPA, German Themed IPA,  Ringler Pilsner,
In the works: You're my Hero Hazelnut Double Brown

Offline Steve in TX

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2014, 09:16:32 PM »

So my 3724 seems to have stalled despite pitching and keeping at 90. OG of 1.051, and 12 days in was only down to 1.026. I have bucket ferm wrapped with Johnson A419(?) set at 90. Any thoughts, should I have had it set a little lower to account for fermentation heating it up? What's my next step now? Rack to a secondary with 05/001/1056? I did read that first pitch if this is usually difficult, but can't see saving for re-pitch if I finish with another yeast unless I secondary.


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Just let it ride. It will get there.

Offline 69franx

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2014, 09:29:30 PM »
Thanks Steve, will do. And I will also postpone teaching anyone else until I have my system down pat or can at least pay attention


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Frank Laske
Franx Brew Works
Fermenting: Saison (w Belle Saison) on raspberries, Saison with 3724&3711
Conditioning: The Queen's Diamonds EBW
In Bottles: House IPA, German Themed IPA,  Ringler Pilsner,
In the works: You're my Hero Hazelnut Double Brown

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2014, 04:47:28 AM »
So my 3724 seems to have stalled despite pitching and keeping at 90. OG of 1.051, and 12 days in was only down to 1.026. I have bucket ferm wrapped with Johnson A419(?) set at 90. Any thoughts, should I have had it set a little lower to account for fermentation heating it up? What's my next step now? Rack to a secondary with 05/001/1056? I did read that first pitch if this is usually difficult, but can't see saving for re-pitch if I finish with another yeast unless I secondary.


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Never had it stall at that temp - I've pitched and fermented at 90F 3 times, all first pitch. I agree to give it time, it'll get there. Or you could always pitch some 3711 to help it finish quicker, if you're in more of a hurry. I used to do that after a week or so , before I learned to pitch it warmer.

EDIT - Also, did you aerate thoroughly, use nutrient, and pitch enough healthy yeast ?  I just ask because it will normally ferment down pretty quickly at that temp.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 05:01:25 AM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline 69franx

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2014, 05:36:03 AM »
Pure O2, pitched enough according to beersmith, mr malty, and yeast calc, and yes to nutrient. I started with a blow off tube, never saw any activity in first week. After 1 week I switched to air lock. Saw plenty of action in airlock for 3-4 days then checked at 12 days. I will check again this weekend


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Frank Laske
Franx Brew Works
Fermenting: Saison (w Belle Saison) on raspberries, Saison with 3724&3711
Conditioning: The Queen's Diamonds EBW
In Bottles: House IPA, German Themed IPA,  Ringler Pilsner,
In the works: You're my Hero Hazelnut Double Brown

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2014, 08:19:08 AM »
any chance that 1.026 was from an uncorrected refractometer reading?
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Offline 69franx

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Re: Saison per Wyeast
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2014, 09:02:29 AM »
No, it was from a hydro sample from the 90 degree fermenter that sat out cooling for over 30 minutes before testing.  I did not temp it, but I'm sure it was still at least 70, as the room it was in was at least that warm. The only other concern I had was that when I pitched, I pitched 80 degree yeast starter into 90 degree wort. Any issues with that, I would have thought it could handle that. Also, I thought I read elsewhere well after pitching that no blowoff tube should be used with this strain, and I did do that for a week at first. As stated earlier, I saw no visible signs of fermentation while blow off tube was in place, but did see airlock activity once that was in place.
Frank Laske
Franx Brew Works
Fermenting: Saison (w Belle Saison) on raspberries, Saison with 3724&3711
Conditioning: The Queen's Diamonds EBW
In Bottles: House IPA, German Themed IPA,  Ringler Pilsner,
In the works: You're my Hero Hazelnut Double Brown