Author Topic: Is liquid yeast significantly better?  (Read 3695 times)

cornershot

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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2013, 10:52:31 AM »
I'd say that's a correct line of thinking Denny... It has to be about preferences and choice of options.

Instead of "better" perhaps "wider range" would be more appropriate in regards to my comment.

I'd say the insight and opinions gained from this thread should be sufficient in helping the OP decide on which is "better" based on his definition of "better".

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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2013, 11:01:27 AM »
James Spencer of Basic Brewing Radio/Video did some unhopped worts with dry yeast and they came out sour.  I believe the conclusion was dry yeasts have small amounts of bacteria that the hops either mask or prevent from working.  I understand liquid yeasts are pure and don't have that problem.

I'm not familiar with that one, but most brewing experiments I've seen suffer from extremely poor experimental design.
 
Also, I always had longer lag times when I was using dry yeast .  Granted, I went all grain and did a starter  of liquid yeast for the first time on the same batch.   I have improved my process since the last time I used dry yeast so the long lag times I experienced may have been due to some other variable.

I have the exact opposite experience switching to all-grain at the same time I switched from liquid to dry yeast.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2013, 11:18:43 AM »
Ya know, in these discussions of which is "better", I've never seen a definition of what "better" means.  Better fermentation performance?  Better flavor?  But isn't flavor subjective?  There may be differences in flavors, but after that isn't it all preference?  I mean, there are both liquid and dry yeasts that produce flavors I don't care for, but in that case "better" becomes strictly my own choice.  Right?

Performance-wise I haven't personally seen a difference between dry and liquid yeast.  There are other factors (temp, pitch rate, oxygenation) that are going to impact your fermentation more than the type of yeast, IMO.

Flavor-wise, you need to brew with it and find out for yourself.  There are yeasts that perform/attenuate just fine for me but have flavors I don't care for and some that have great flavor but require more care to get the attenuation I want.  I like to do split batches to determine which yeast I prefer for a specific recipe.
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Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2013, 11:48:06 AM »
...There are other factors (temp, pitch rate, oxygenation) that are going to impact your fermentation more than the type of yeast...

THIS

Doesn't matter what kind of yeast you use if you're not on top of fermentation temperature, pitch rate, and oxygen content.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2013, 12:18:12 PM »
...There are other factors (temp, pitch rate, oxygenation) that are going to impact your fermentation more than the type of yeast...

THIS

Doesn't matter what kind of yeast you use if you're not on top of fermentation temperature, pitch rate, and oxygen content.
+1 for sure.
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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2013, 12:36:43 PM »
According to Fermetis, dry yeast sachets contain other microorganisms:
http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf

Wyeast claims to be free of other microorganisms:
"Wyeast 100% Pure Liquid Yeast™ cultures are pure, single strains of yeast with no contaminants. Dry yeast can contain contamination by multiple strains or other organisms, varying between manufacturers and batches.
"
http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_advantage.cfm

I don't know whether this makes a discernible difference in 5G of beer but, IMO, this makes liquid yeast better.
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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2013, 12:41:31 PM »
I don't know whether this makes a discernible difference in 5G of beer but, IMO, this makes liquid yeast better.

If it doesn't make a discernible difference, why would it matter?
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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2013, 12:58:07 PM »
I don't know whether this makes a discernible difference in 5G of beer but, IMO, this makes liquid yeast better.

If it doesn't make a discernible difference, why would it matter?

I just don't want to intentionally add more microorganisms or take the chance of them contributing some flavor.  Again, I don't know if it makes a diffence but I'd rather not chance it.
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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2013, 01:12:17 PM »
I don't know whether this makes a discernible difference in 5G of beer but, IMO, this makes liquid yeast better.

If it doesn't make a discernible difference, why would it matter?

I just don't want to intentionally add more microorganisms or take the chance of them contributing some flavor.  Again, I don't know if it makes a diffence but I'd rather not chance it.

I would guess that the amount of beer-spoiling bacteria that is introduced into my beers from the environment of my brewery is much bigger than the amount in the yeast, liquid or dry.
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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2013, 01:19:25 PM »
I would guess that the amount of beer-spoiling bacteria that is introduced into my beers from the environment of my brewery is much bigger than the amount in the yeast, liquid or dry.

Exactly.

Can we file the 'infected dry yeast' fear away? We can put it right next to hot-side aeration.
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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2013, 01:21:38 PM »
According to Fermetis, dry yeast sachets contain other microorganisms:
http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf

Wyeast claims to be free of other microorganisms:
"Wyeast 100% Pure Liquid Yeast™ cultures are pure, single strains of yeast with no contaminants. Dry yeast can contain contamination by multiple strains or other organisms, varying between manufacturers and batches.
"
http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_advantage.cfm

I don't know whether this makes a discernible difference in 5G of beer but, IMO, this makes liquid yeast better.
You're comparing a lab analysis to marketing lingo. All of fermentis' numbers are <X/mL. This is probably the lowest level they can detect. A lab analysis rarely says zero because the contamination may be there but at levels they can't detect.  WYeast would have the same constraints, but they're not giving you their lab analysis. They're giving you a marketing line.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 01:25:22 PM by mtnrockhopper »
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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2013, 02:34:44 PM »
According to Fermetis, dry yeast sachets contain other microorganisms:
http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf

Wyeast claims to be free of other microorganisms:
"Wyeast 100% Pure Liquid Yeast™ cultures are pure, single strains of yeast with no contaminants. Dry yeast can contain contamination by multiple strains or other organisms, varying between manufacturers and batches.
"
http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_advantage.cfm

I don't know whether this makes a discernible difference in 5G of beer but, IMO, this makes liquid yeast better.
You're comparing a lab analysis to marketing lingo. All of fermentis' numbers are <X/mL. This is probably the lowest level they can detect. A lab analysis rarely says zero because the contamination may be there but at levels they can't detect.

+ <MDL
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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2013, 03:57:13 PM »
Ya know, in these discussions of which is "better", I've never seen a definition of what "better" means.  Better fermentation performance?  Better flavor?  But isn't flavor subjective?  There may be differences in flavors, but after that isn't it all preference?  I mean, there are both liquid and dry yeasts that produce flavors I don't care for, but in that case "better" becomes strictly my own choice.  Right?

Absolutely agree.  There was a time when liquid yeast was clearly and consistently  'better' and more dependable than the dry stuff.  Dry yeast has since come a long way, and where I once said I'd never resort to using it again (I switched to liquid in the mid 1980s) I can now say that I always keep some dry yeast  on hand these days and while my personal preference is still liquid, I've had some very satisfying results with the current dry yeast offerings (especially handy for last minute decisions to brew).

The liquid preference is not about variety...I don't see the point is switching yeasts for every brew and besides the house yeast I've kept alive since the '80s, there are only 2 or 3 Wyeast strains I keep around.   Cost certainly isn't an issue with the Wyeast products;  when I use one, I routinely get 8 or 9 brews from a pack via repitching (and sometimes even more).

Bottom line for me is that I will always prefer wet yeast because I personally think it's better (in both performance and flavor)  based only on my own observations. But it is strictly personal opinion... which in the end doesn't matter at all since  others' mileage will inevitably vary.
So going with Denny expresses, I think that everyone just needs to experiment and decide for themselves.   
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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2013, 06:39:28 PM »
According to Fermetis, dry yeast sachets contain other microorganisms:
http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf

Wyeast claims to be free of other microorganisms:
"Wyeast 100% Pure Liquid Yeast™ cultures are pure, single strains of yeast with no contaminants. Dry yeast can contain contamination by multiple strains or other organisms, varying between manufacturers and batches.
"
http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_advantage.cfm

I don't know whether this makes a discernible difference in 5G of beer but, IMO, this makes liquid yeast better.
You're comparing a lab analysis to marketing lingo. All of fermentis' numbers are <X/mL. This is probably the lowest level they can detect. A lab analysis rarely says zero because the contamination may be there but at levels they can't detect.  WYeast would have the same constraints, but they're not giving you their lab analysis. They're giving you a marketing line.


That's a good point point.  I do think liquid strains taste cleaner but I'm not immune to good marketing so it may just be the placebo effect. 

More importantly, I like the fact I can make a starter ahead of time and not have to worry rehydrating on brew day.  It's one less thing to think about and to try to time with the rest of the process. This, and the fact I can see the yeast already working, outweighs the added cost of DME.  No, I can't just sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort.  Not when rehydrating seems to be recommended.  Just a couple more definitions of "better."
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Is liquid yeast significantly better?
« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2013, 07:47:06 PM »
No, I can't just sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort.  Not when rehydrating seems to be recommended.

You absolutely can sprinkle, and if you haven't I strongly recommend that you try. There are many of us who find no improvement in using rehydrated yeast over just sprinkling it dry.

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