Author Topic: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?  (Read 1157 times)

Offline hoser

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Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« on: August 02, 2013, 11:02:57 AM »
So, I am presently brewing a gose using the quick souring method.  Pitched my home grown lacto starter last night into the wort.  This AM before I left for work, it dropped from 5.3 to 3.8.  I was shooting for about 3.5 to 3.8.  My concern is if I continues to drop at this rate the wort will be too sour and the acidity too strong for the yeast.  Would chalk or baking soda be best to add back.  I will likely boil it tonight when I get home to kill the lacto and then add the yeast (WY1007).  I know chalk is generally a pain to add, but with a boiling wort it should be ok, no?  Plenty of sodium already in the water with the sea salt additions, so for that reason I am thinking chalk (if I can get it to dissolve) would be better than baking soda.

Thoughts from the masses?

Thanks!

Offline narvin

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Re: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2013, 11:25:39 AM »
I *think* you should be able to dissolve chalk much easier at a pH of 3.8.  It's just a problem in water, and even at mash pH.  Some historical Belgian ale producers used to add eggshells to wort that was too sour, and that's basically chalk.
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Offline hoser

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Re: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2013, 11:43:43 AM »
Good point about the acidity, that slipped my mind.

Offline denny

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Re: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2013, 12:14:02 PM »
Do you specifically need carbonates, or are you just looking to boost pH?
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Offline hoser

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Re: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2013, 01:02:14 PM »
Specifically to boost pH.  But, I used R/O water (part of the reason it's so low). So, adding back carbonates would not be the end of the world.  And it would boost my pH. The quick souring was quicker than I expected. ;D

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2013, 01:09:45 PM »
Specifically to boost pH.  But, I used R/O water (part of the reason it's so low). So, adding back carbonates would not be the end of the world.  And it would boost my pH. The quick souring was quicker than I expected. ;D
Pickling lime will raise pH easily.
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Offline denny

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Re: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2013, 01:18:24 PM »
Specifically to boost pH.  But, I used R/O water (part of the reason it's so low). So, adding back carbonates would not be the end of the world.  And it would boost my pH. The quick souring was quicker than I expected. ;D
Pickling lime will raise pH easily.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2013, 01:58:56 PM »
I wouldn't boil but merely drive temperature up to 170 to pasteurize. No reason to boil off aromatics if you don't have to.
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Offline narvin

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Re: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2013, 02:48:24 PM »
Be careful if you use pickling lime, it can raise pH very quickly.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2013, 03:03:35 PM »
Be careful if you use pickling lime, it can raise pH very quickly.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2013, 04:04:20 PM »
Given the acidity of the wort, any basic buffer should work, even chalk.  A tougher calculation is determining how much to add to avoid overdosing.

Its too bad you've already added the sodium to that Gose. Sodium chloride is best added to the beer after fermentation and should not be in the wort or beer at high concentration to avoid upsetting the fermentation.   
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Offline hoser

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Re: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2013, 05:58:11 PM »
So update.  Only got down to 3.4 by the time I got home.  So I decided to RDWHAHB.  Went ahead as planned.  Thanks everyone for the advice.  Tips I will keep in mind for the next time I brew this.  And there will be a next time.  Love the abreviated brew session.  The quick sour wort smelled and tasted awesome.  Reverseapachemaster, do you have any issues with DMS using pils malt?

Martin, I will see how the fermentation goes.  Very good points.

Thanks again everyone!

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2013, 08:04:26 PM »
Reverseapachemaster, do you have any issues with DMS using pils malt?

I misread your opening post and thought you had already gone through the initial boil and wanted to boil the beer again. That doesn't make any sense. Let me try to make some sense.

You can do a no-boil beer and retain some of the funky, yogurt flavors you get from lactobacillus. I've never done that myself but lots of people have done it with berliner weisses and don't seem to have a problem with DMS. When I sour mash I always boil after the sour mash. You do lose that yogurt flavor in favor of a cleaner sourness. I'm not a fan of that funky yogurt character from no-boil sour mash myself. I prefer the cleaner sourness. It's just a matter of your preference. Lactic acid boils as 251F so you're not going to boil out the acidty.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2013, 08:05:49 PM »
Given the acidity of the wort, any basic buffer should work, even chalk.  A tougher calculation is determining how much to add to avoid overdosing.

Its too bad you've already added the sodium to that Gose. Sodium chloride is best added to the beer after fermentation and should not be in the wort or beer at high concentration to avoid upsetting the fermentation.

I wonder how much sodium it takes to interrupt fermentation. On a very early AG brew I accidentally left my digital scale set to ounces instead of grams and added like an ounce of sodium (and ounces of the other brewing salts) to a five gallon batch. It fermented perfectly fine but it was an undrinkably salty brew. Made a great marinade.
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Offline hoser

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Re: Best salt addition to boost back carbonates?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2013, 08:47:29 PM »
Given the acidity of the wort, any basic buffer should work, even chalk.  A tougher calculation is determining how much to add to avoid overdosing.

Its too bad you've already added the sodium to that Gose. Sodium chloride is best added to the beer after fermentation and should not be in the wort or beer at high concentration to avoid upsetting the fermentation.

I wonder how much sodium it takes to interrupt fermentation. On a very early AG brew I accidentally left my digital scale set to ounces instead of grams and added like an ounce of sodium (and ounces of the other brewing salts) to a five gallon batch. It fermented perfectly fine but it was an undrinkably salty brew. Made a great marinade.

I only added 21 grams, so I don't have any concerns.  I can always add back.  Wort doesn't taste all that salty so should be ok.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2013, 09:16:53 PM by hoser »