Author Topic: Roggenbier!  (Read 1008 times)

Offline mpietropaoli

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Roggenbier!
« on: August 04, 2013, 06:19:48 AM »
Can't find much on this style, or homebrewed versions of it.  I typically like all beer styles, but am not a huge fan of hefes...I think it is because I find them lacking in malt character.  Voila roggenbier.  Plus I would like to grow up a hefe cake to brew a weizen bock on our 1/2 bbl system.  Was going to do jamils recipe fermented nice and low, and 62. 

Anyone have any thoughts n the style, tasting notes, or recipe tweaks?  I have read the bjcp guideline, but would like to hear from some brewers
Primary: Common Cider; Xmas FauxCAP
Kegged: Pliny Clone; Rodney's Weizenbock; RIS
Bottled: Putain Biere de Garde; 51 RIS; Glutang Clan Roggenbier
Cellaring: Biere de Mars; Flanders
Planned: Schwarz

Offline quattlebaum

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Re: Roggenbier!
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2013, 07:39:13 AM »
I just made one and it's 2 week old and tasty however i enjoy a good hefe:).  I was told it's basically a dunkel but with Rye instead of wheat. I enjoy rye and it defiantly added a unique flavor to it. I also did a single decoction  1/3 of grist. This one has a really dry, crisp and somewhat smokey lingering taste. My final beer PH prior to carb was 4.39. Mash was 5.47 PH. Might wanna try this one instead Dumpfbier. I am currently making it. It was recommended on this forum. Recipe follows. http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/Dampfbier.html  I will say also that it has a slight "waxy" aftertaste? Can anyone comment on that?
Recipe: German Rye
Brewer: Quattlebaum
Asst Brewer:
Style: Roggenbier (German Rye Beer)
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.60 gal
Post Boil Volume: 7.80 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal   
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 16.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 13.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 102.3 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ferm at 62 per Jamil:)

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
4 lbs 11.1 oz         Rye Malt (Weyermann) (4.0 SRM)           Grain         1        41.6 %       
2 lbs 5.1 oz          Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain         2        20.5 %       
2 lbs 4.2 oz          Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM)            Grain         3        20.0 %       
1 lbs 0.5 oz          Cara Rye (65.0 SRM)                      Grain         4        9.1 %         
5.9 oz                Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM)                 Grain         5        3.3 %         
5.9 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)    Grain         6        3.3 %         
4.1 oz                Carafa Special II (Weyermann) (415.0 SRM Grain         7        2.3 %         
1.01 oz               Hallertauer [4.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min     Hop           8        11.5 IBUs     
0.41 oz               Tettnang [3.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min        Hop           9        1.5 IBUs     
1.0 pkg               Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast Labs #3068) Yeast         10       -             


Mash Schedule: (208) Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out, Fly
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 4.8 oz
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Mash In           Add 5.13 gal of water at 162.5 F        152.0 F       75 min       

Sparge: Fly sparge with 5.01 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:


Recipe: Dumpfbier
Brewer: Quattlebaum
Asst Brewer:
Style: Weizen/Weissbier
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 4.18 gal
Post Boil Volume: 3.18 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 3.00 gal   
Bottling Volume: 3.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Estimated Color: 4.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 14.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 76.6 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
3 lbs 10.1 oz         Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM)            Grain         1        69.9 %       
1 lbs 1.6 oz          Munich Malt (5.0 SRM)                    Grain         2        21.2 %       
7.4 oz                Vienna Malt (4.0 SRM)                    Grain         3        8.9 %         
0.46 oz               Hallertauer [4.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min     Hop           4        13.9 IBUs     
0.10 oz               Hallertauer [4.30 %] - Boil 1.0 min      Hop           5        0.1 IBUs     
1.0 pkg               Bavarian Weizen Yeast (White Labs #WLP35 Yeast         6        -             


Mash Schedule: (208) Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out, Fly
Total Grain Weight: 5 lbs 3.1 oz
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Mash In           Add 2.27 gal of water at 164.5 F        150.0 F       60 min       

Sparge: Fly sparge with 2.54 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
------


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 07:46:59 AM by quattlebaum »

Offline joe_feist

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Re: Roggenbier!
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 07:58:33 AM »
I brewed my first roggenbier last month. Used the recipe at AHA. IIRC correctly, it's about 45% rye and it does use a decoction mash. I like the beer and I, too, like a good hefe. It definitely has all the clove, bananna flavors; the rye adds a nice peppery bite. At least, I attribute that to the rye. That much rye was a pain to lauter. The recipe calls for rice hulls and I might up them when I do this again. All in all, I do like this beer.

Rogue makes a roggen that's very good and absolutely nothing like what brewed.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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Offline mpietropaoli

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Re: Roggenbier!
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2013, 01:16:41 PM »
Nice!  Thanks for the replies...

Two things I forgot to specify:

1 I really do like the hefe phenolics, but find I like more malt character. 

2 I think rogues "roggenbier" sucks for that reason.  I am guessing they use pacman for it, and it is nice and malty, but I think some hefe character or other phenolics would make that beer infinitely better.  I will admit I don't really like many of rogues beers other than their stouts. 

Going to get brewing!  What's the better yeast to get moderate-high hefe character to balance the earthy rye, if I am going to ferment in the low 60's?
Primary: Common Cider; Xmas FauxCAP
Kegged: Pliny Clone; Rodney's Weizenbock; RIS
Bottled: Putain Biere de Garde; 51 RIS; Glutang Clan Roggenbier
Cellaring: Biere de Mars; Flanders
Planned: Schwarz

Offline denny

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Re: Roggenbier!
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2013, 01:34:18 PM »
Rogue makes a roggenbier?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline denny

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Re: Roggenbier!
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2013, 01:38:03 PM »
OK, I looked and see they do.  But they say they use weizen yeast, not Pacman.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline joe_feist

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Re: Roggenbier!
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2013, 03:06:25 PM »
Yep. I had their roggenbier. IIRC, it's all from their own farm or something. They say the produced everything that goes in the bottle. I liked the beer, but didn't find it to be what I thought should be there. I was looking for more banana, clove and some something more from the rye.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain

Offline galapagos jim

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Re: Roggenbier!
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2013, 04:04:58 PM »
Reuben's Brews in Seattle makes an outstanding roggenbier. Not that I have experience or authority to compare it to other examples of style, but outstanding at least in the sense that I'll drink it any chance I get. It's available in bottles wherever Reuben's Brews fine beers are sold (not much out side of WA yet).

I've had Rogue's "roguenbier", too. It was pretty good, but a quite sweet compared to Reuben's.

Definitely a style worth reviving.

Offline quattlebaum

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Re: Roggenbier!
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2013, 06:07:49 PM »
I used wyeast 3068. Mine finished at 1.012. My grain bill is complicated but i believe it works. Maybe i will simplify it a bit.  I use the 2 row to try to bet a little more mouth feel. At least i think it helps.
Nice!  Thanks for the replies...

Two things I forgot to specify:

1 I really do like the hefe phenolics, but find I like more malt character. 

2 I think rogues "roggenbier" sucks for that reason.  I am guessing they use pacman for it, and it is nice and malty, but I think some hefe character or other phenolics would make that beer infinitely better.  I will admit I don't really like many of rogues beers other than their stouts. 

Going to get brewing!  What's the better yeast to get moderate-high hefe character to balance the earthy rye, if I am going to ferment in the low 60's?

Offline joe_feist

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Re: Roggenbier!
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2013, 07:56:20 AM »
I used the WLP 380 and got all the flavor I was looking for. Fermented at about 68* ambient air temp. I have a lager in my fridge. Anyway, thought it turned out well for me. Took to a club pic-nic and got some good comments; nothing too critical.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain

Offline mpietropaoli

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Re: Roggenbier!
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2013, 06:27:00 PM »
Though this beer was a gargantuan PITA to lauter (and it was BIAB, with 2# of rice hulls!), and I had an accident or two that resulted in some of it being spilled on the garage floor (and much of it not making it into the boil), this turned out to be a fantastic and unique beer.  Fermented at 62*, raised up to 66 on day 4, then finished at 70 with 2 vials of WLP300 (then used the cake to make a 1/2 bbl weizenbock). 

Really prominent rich earthiness of rye, rich melanoidins (single decoction and about 15% munich malt), with some prominent clove and a subtle banana ester.  Kind of like a whole grain banana nut bread muffin.  The other thing I couldn't believe was the mouthfeel of it.  It almost has a cascade effect like a nitro-served stout when poured.  Not sure how often I will brew this, but its a great starter for what will likely be an annual weizenbock brew (though next time I'm doing a beta-glucan rest!).

Cheers!
Primary: Common Cider; Xmas FauxCAP
Kegged: Pliny Clone; Rodney's Weizenbock; RIS
Bottled: Putain Biere de Garde; 51 RIS; Glutang Clan Roggenbier
Cellaring: Biere de Mars; Flanders
Planned: Schwarz