Author Topic: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?  (Read 2928 times)

Offline redbeerman

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Re: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2013, 07:10:13 AM »
I am not a pedantic brewer.  I repeat my sucesses and avoid my repeating my mistakes.  Minutiae are for the small-minded.

I always thought that minutiae were for the engineers.

Add scientists to that, but as an engineer I must agree.

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Offline punatic

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Re: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2013, 08:15:50 AM »
I am not a pedantic brewer.  I repeat my sucesses and avoid my repeating my mistakes.  Minutiae are for the small-minded.

I always thought that minutiae were for the engineers.

Add scientists to that, but as an engineer I must agree.

+6.0221413e+23

We're talking brewing here, not Avocado-eating moles...  ::)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 08:22:52 AM by punatic »
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2013, 09:38:04 AM »
There are several variables at play when it comes to pitching on a yeast cake. Like the first generation yeast health/viability, sanitation process/practices, fermentation health (originally), remaining viable cell count (pitching rate), % trub, etc...

That being said, I've had success pitching onto yeast cakes in the past, but I prefer to rinse the yeast prior to reuse if time permits.

I don't have a hemocytometer, so I can't count viable cells, but I try to make a best guess for pitching rates. If you start with healthy yeast initially, you'll be better off in the end.
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Offline gsandel

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Re: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2013, 10:13:20 AM »
Quote
Minutiae are for the small-minded.

That is the best quote I have heard in a while.  Problem is, my bosses...and I don't have the patience or attention span for either.
You wouldn't believe the things I've seen...

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2013, 12:51:25 PM »
The fermenter vessel could be the problem residually - if it is not perfectly sanitary and you leave the yeast cake in place and simply add wort to the vessel, over multiple reuses, there is a slightly greater likelihood of problems (all other things being equal) - that maybe wouldn't be exceeded by collecting the yeast and reusing a clean vessel for the re-pitch (with our without rinsing).  No science there, just pragmatism, which I think the author was trying to get at (though a bit pompously, I admit).  I routinely collect and repitch yeast at the rate of 1/3 cake for ales (in primary for up to a month) and 1/2 cake for lagers (in primary for a month, typically).  I have reused a lager yeast (WLP800) up to 22 times adding yeast nutrient from Wyeast with each successive batch and not rinsing.  So, maybe I'm lucky or maybe I'm careful, but that is what I have done.  I believe I could reuse the unwashed primary and yeast cake without a problem, but I have decided not to risk it up til now - but I have been stepping up a Budejovice strain through successive pitches and a 3 gallon batch will be ready to move this weekend.  Maybe I'll just bottle that and brew the next batch as a 5 gallon batch and pitch right on top of the cake...we'll see. ;) 
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Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2013, 03:47:17 PM »
+6.0221413e+23

We're talking brewing here, not Avocado-eating moles...  ::)
Best responses ever!
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Offline The Professor

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Re: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2013, 05:23:52 PM »
Hooey.
If you have a sanitation problem it didn't come from reusing a yeast cake in this manner.  Sounds like a confusion of correlation and cause.

Right.
I pretty routinely repitch yeast through 8 or 9 brews with no issues whatsoever (and in the past, I've actually gone well beyond that, also with no problems. These days I play it safer).

Try pushing it experimentally.  You'll know pretty quickly when you've reached your own brewery's limit.  Only thing is, I wouldn't use the whole cake...1/3 to 1/2 is generally plenty, depending on the OG of the new beer.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2013, 09:52:56 AM »
+6.0221413e+23

We're talking brewing here, not Avocado-eating moles...  ::)
Best responses ever!

+1

This in part is what helps make the AHA forum the best of it's kind. :)
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2013, 08:14:05 AM »
+6.0221413e+23

We're talking brewing here, not Avocado-eating moles...  ::)
Best responses ever!

+1

This in part is what helps make the AHA forum the best of it's kind. :)

I had to look that one up;  yes, that is quite good.  And +1 Bluesman.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline punatic

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Re: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2013, 08:49:55 AM »
+6.0221413e+23

We're talking brewing here, not Avocado-eating moles...  ::)
Best responses ever!

+1

This in part is what helps make the AHA forum the best of it's kind. :)

I had to look that one up;  yes, that is quite good.  And +1 Bluesman.

So, we proved that it is OK to hot-rack onto clean yeastcake, right? ;)

I mean these days it is not necessary to actually prove a theory.  You just get a consensus and theory becomes fact!

Is that great, or what?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 09:03:39 AM by punatic »
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2013, 05:54:35 PM »
All I know is that I did that Saturday and I am relying on otherwise good sanitation processes for this - hoping for the best!  Trusting my fellow brewers...I expect nothing short of success.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2013, 07:02:03 AM »

So, we proved that it is OK to hot-rack onto clean yeastcake, right? ;)

I mean these days it is not necessary to actually prove a theory.  You just get a consensus and theory becomes fact!

Is that great, or what?

Wikipedia told me that is true.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2013, 07:50:31 AM »
You just get a consensus and theory becomes fact!

When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Racking onto previous yeast cake a "terrible idea"?
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2013, 07:48:17 PM »
Trust but verify, meanwhile, if it's on the internet it must be true