[tomsawyer]

True dat.  I was in Lowes some time ago and mentioned to the associate I wanted a particular fitting for homebrewing, and another guy in the plumbing aisle came up and introduced himself as the brewer at a nanobrewery in a town 30 miles away.

[hopfenundmalz]

BIAB is the cheapest way to go all grain.

This is more, get a blue cooler (forum joke).
http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

Even more is a 3 vessel system with all the bells and whistles.

The is a really good group of gals and guys in the Cass River Homebrew Club, hope that is not too far for you.

http://crhbc.com/pages/about-us.php

Dude Jeff, you could have told the guy I'm from Flint. I sent you a PM buddy. 

I just figured you were going to show up soon, Mike.

Hey Rusty, if you see those guys again, and they are bragging about all grain, ask them about how they do triple decoctions or turbid mashes. 

Well it just would have been nice if you were like, Hey I know this awesome, super great brewer from Flint. He makes the best beer I've ever tasted and is awesome.

You know, something like that ;-)

By the way, if you go dennybrew (which is a great way) be prepared to spend the rest of your life thinking every time you go in Lowes or HD, what can I buy that I can use in my mash tun or Boil kettle.

Yeah something like that would have been good.

Rust, I can vouch for Mike. Good guy, good homebrewer. If you have a chance to brew with him, take it!

[theDarkSide]

and introduced himself as the brewer at a nanobrewery in a town 30 miles away.

Yeah, but is he brewing All Grain in his nano? 

[thatgeekguy]

Mufasa from BJ's doesn't consider extract brewers to be brewer's, but he's not an a$$hole about it.

Ironic, since a large percentage of BJ's own beer isn't even made by BJ's and Mufasa is in charge of their contract brewing operations. Out of their 130 locations it appears that only three actually brew on premise and supply only 30% of their total requirements. 

But I digress, back to the topic at hand. Any brewers who demeans another for their methods or processes should be ashamed of themselves. At the end of the day, making good beer is what it's all about and some prominent gold medal winners were extract beers. Heck, even Jamil Zainasheff has made extract batches using slightly tweaked recipes with Cooper's-style pre-hopped extracts that he has presented to respected beer aficionados with great reviews before telling them they were drinking a 'kit and kilo' beer.

Make what you can, make it well, and tell those jerks to go to H*ll....

[HoosierBrew]

Mufasa from BJ's doesn't consider extract brewers to be brewer's, but he's not an a$$hole about it.

Ironic, since a large percentage of BJ's own beer isn't even made by BJ's and Mufasa is in charge of their contract brewing operations. Out of their 130 locations it appears that only three actually brew on premise and supply only 30% of their total requirements. 

But I digress, back to the topic at hand. Any brewers who demeans another for their methods or processes should be ashamed of themselves. At the end of the day, making good beer is what it's all about and some prominent gold medal winners were extract beers. Heck, even Jamil Zainasheff has made extract batches using slightly tweaked recipes with Cooper's-style pre-hopped extracts that he has presented to respected beer aficionados with great reviews before telling them they were drinking a 'kit and kilo' beer.

Make what you can, make it well, and tell those jerks to go to H*ll....

+1.  There's a BJ's in south Indy and they are a complete joke.  They brew it in Nevada and truck it to Indy under the guise of a brewpub front, complete with a "decorative" empty fermenter.  I tried a sample of everything, liked nothing. I remember a ~ 1.054 "RIS" that I found humorous.  So I see the irony too.  There's the proof that all-grain isn't necessarily superior - they make AG sh#&&y beer.

[phunhog]

I don't know. Do you think it is mere coincidence that all (IIRC) of NHC winners the last couple of years were all grain brewers?  Or better yet why don't commercial breweries switch to extract if there really isn't any difference between extract brewing vs. all grain brewing? 

[Slowbrew]

I don't know. Do you think it is mere coincidence that all (IIRC) of NHC winners the last couple of years were all grain brewers?  Or better yet why don't commercial breweries switch to extract if there really isn't any difference between extract brewing vs. all grain brewing?

I don't think anyone said there isn't any difference between extract and all-grain.  The general message is both can make good beer.  If you distill a message down too far you lose the meaning.

You can make very good, award winning beer with extracts.  You can also make really crappy beer via all-grain.  It's about the brewer and their practices "more" than about the base ingredients most instances.

Paul

[morticaixavier]

I don't know. Do you think it is mere coincidence that all (IIRC) of NHC winners the last couple of years were all grain brewers?  Or better yet why don't commercial breweries switch to extract if there really isn't any difference between extract brewing vs. all grain brewing?

Extract is significantly more expensive per gravity point than grain. And still there are SOME pro extract brewers.

Regardless, the question is not if extract makes better/worse beer but if it is a d-bag move to slap someone down because they are starting out with extract.

[micah h]

Sounds like a couple of hipster brewers. If you're not doing exactly what they are doing your wrong. If it wasn't the extract they would have said that capping is wrong, you need to use Grolsch-style swing-caps. Or  you're not kegging that's not brewing.

I'm a extract brewer for one good reason. Not enough room to store the stuff, and I don't think my girlfriend would want to sleep on my brewing equipment.

[jeffy]

I don't know. Do you think it is mere coincidence that all (IIRC) of NHC winners the last couple of years were all grain brewers?  Or better yet why don't commercial breweries switch to extract if there really isn't any difference between extract brewing vs. all grain brewing?

I judged best of show at the Oakland NHC (with Tom Schmidlin - by the way, where is he these days?) and the beer that won the whole shebang turned out to be an extract beer.

I haven't brewed extract in a long while, but when I did do a batch a couple years ago I was really surprised at how expensive it was.  On the other hand I was happy with the time I saved.

[hopfenundmalz]

I don't know. Do you think it is mere coincidence that all (IIRC) of NHC winners the last couple of years were all grain brewers?  Or better yet why don't commercial breweries switch to extract if there really isn't any difference between extract brewing vs. all grain brewing?

I judged best of show at the Oakland NHC (with Tom Schmidlin - by the way, where is he these days?) and the beer that won the whole shebang turned out to be an extract beer.

I haven't brewed extract in a long while, but when I did do a batch a couple years ago I was really surprised at how expensive it was.  On the other hand I was happy with the time I saved.

There has been an absence in the "Force" on the AHA Forum. Where is Tom?

[thirsty]

Rusty, it's not how you make it, it's the final product that counts. If you enjoy the beer you make, that's all that matters,

[phunhog]

I don't know. Do you think it is mere coincidence that all (IIRC) of NHC winners the last couple of years were all grain brewers?  Or better yet why don't commercial breweries switch to extract if there really isn't any difference between extract brewing vs. all grain brewing?

Extract is significantly more expensive per gravity point than grain. And still there are SOME pro extract brewers.

Regardless, the question is not if extract makes better/worse beer but if it is a d-bag move to slap someone down because they are starting out with extract.

Absolutely it is a D-bag move to bag on someone who starts out extract brewing!! That is how most of us started and I think it is the preferred way of learning how to brew. 

[philm63]

Rusty - I started with extract, moved to partial-mash and now I do all-grain, but I have yet to even place in a comp with one of my all-grain brews. My one gold came from a partial-mash (mostly extract) brew further reinforcing that it's not necessarily HOW you make your beer, rather it's how WELL you make your beer, and it's the brewer that makes it happen, not just the ingredients.

I am reminded of a couple of very big names around here; Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer - say; didn't they write the book "Brewing Classic Styles"? Every recipe in that book is... you guessed it; EXTRACT!

[HoosierBrew]

I don't know. Do you think it is mere coincidence that all (IIRC) of NHC winners the last couple of years were all grain brewers?  Or better yet why don't commercial breweries switch to extract if there really isn't any difference between extract brewing vs. all grain brewing?

Extract is significantly more expensive per gravity point than grain. And still there are SOME pro extract brewers.

Regardless, the question is not if extract makes better/worse beer but if it is a d-bag move to slap someone down because they are starting out with extract.

Absolutely it is a D-bag move to bag on someone who starts out extract brewing!! That is how most of us started and I think it is the preferred way of learning how to brew. 

That was my point in my posting.  I've brewed AG for 20 years and obviously prefer it, but just handing a guy a sack of crushed malt doesn't guarantee a superior product, as evidenced by the "brewpub" I mentioned.