Author Topic: Witbier help  (Read 1107 times)

Offline mripa

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Beer
    • View Profile
Witbier help
« on: September 01, 2013, 11:52:58 AM »
I'm looking to brew my first Witbier soon.
Here is a recipe from Jamil Zainasheff of Brew Your Own.
Anybody willing to share a better recipe or would you change anything on this one?


Blanche Oreiller
(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.050 (12.4 °P)  FG = 1.011 (2.8 °P) 
IBU = 20  SRM: 4  ABV = 5.0%

Ingredients
 
4.5 lb. (2.0 kg) flaked wheat (1 °L)
4.9 lb. (2.2 kg) Pilsner malt (1.6 °L)
1.1 lb. (0.5 kg) flaked oats (1 °L)
0.25 lb. (113 g) Munich malt (8 °L)
0.5 lb. (227 g) rice hulls or other natural filter
4 AAU Hallertau hops (60 mins) (1.0 oz/28 g of 4% alpha acids)
1.5 oz. (43 g) fresh citrus zest (5 mins)
0.4 oz. (11 g) crushed coriander seed (5 mins)
0.03 oz. (1 g) dried chamomile flowers (5 mins)
Wyeast 3944 (Belgian Witbier), White Labs WLP400 (Belgian Wit Ale) or Brewferm Blanche dried yeast


Thanks!

Offline jeffy

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2443
  • Tampa, Fl
    • View Profile
Re: Witbier help
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2013, 12:32:45 PM »
I'm looking to brew my first Witbier soon.
Here is a recipe from Jamil Zainasheff of Brew Your Own.
Anybody willing to share a better recipe or would you change anything on this one?


Blanche Oreiller
(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.050 (12.4 °P)  FG = 1.011 (2.8 °P) 
IBU = 20  SRM: 4  ABV = 5.0%

Ingredients
 
4.5 lb. (2.0 kg) flaked wheat (1 °L)
4.9 lb. (2.2 kg) Pilsner malt (1.6 °L)
1.1 lb. (0.5 kg) flaked oats (1 °L)
0.25 lb. (113 g) Munich malt (8 °L)
0.5 lb. (227 g) rice hulls or other natural filter
4 AAU Hallertau hops (60 mins) (1.0 oz/28 g of 4% alpha acids)
1.5 oz. (43 g) fresh citrus zest (5 mins)
0.4 oz. (11 g) crushed coriander seed (5 mins)
0.03 oz. (1 g) dried chamomile flowers (5 mins)
Wyeast 3944 (Belgian Witbier), White Labs WLP400 (Belgian Wit Ale) or Brewferm Blanche dried yeast


Thanks!
I'm not sure why there would be Munich malt in a wit.  It doesn't need the color or the maltiness.
That's probably not enough chamomile to be noticeable.  I would increase it by at least double.
Wyeast Witbier yeast is better that White Labs in my opinion.  It has more of the tart flavor you're looking for.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
Homebrewing since 1990
AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member
BJCP judge since 1995

Offline gmac

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2021
  • London, Ontario
    • View Profile
Re: Witbier help
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2013, 01:05:34 PM »
I say do Mdixon's wit beer recipe.  It is super easy, super awesome and for me it's the only one I'll ever bother to even attempt.  I medaled with it on the first brew and I've made it several times since and it's great.  Look down at the 2nd or 3rd post in this thread when I asked the same question you are asking now.
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=8193.0

I did do one with Chamomile and it gets over powering really easily.  Now I leave it out and just do the orange and Indian (notice I said "INDIAN") coriander. 
Man, now you got me thinking about it and I've gotta brew this again.

Just looked at your chamomile amount again. 0.03 isn't even enough to bother with.  I found 1 oz to be over powering and I'd go down to maybe 0.25 oz.  And for your orange zest, I don't know how much I had but the zest of a dozen oranges is not too much.  The real orange character comes from the coriander (did I mention I really like Indian coriander better?). 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 01:11:38 PM by gmac »

Offline mripa

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Beer
    • View Profile
Re: Witbier help
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2013, 04:34:06 PM »
Thanks - Jeff this is Kent from Tampa BEERS club.  I'll try to catch up with you Tuesday if it's not to crazy at the meeting.  Mdixon's recipe looks a little over my head.  I have a cooler mash tun.  I'm really trying to brew something for a party that will have non craft beer drinkers.  Basically a Blue Moon type recipe.  I will be removing the chamomile and munich malt.  What about hops?  Any thought on that.  I'll use the wyeast witbier yeast.

Offline jeffy

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2443
  • Tampa, Fl
    • View Profile
Re: Witbier help
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2013, 05:09:59 PM »
Thanks - Jeff this is Kent from Tampa BEERS club.  I'll try to catch up with you Tuesday if it's not to crazy at the meeting.  Mdixon's recipe looks a little over my head.  I have a cooler mash tun.  I'm really trying to brew something for a party that will have non craft beer drinkers.  Basically a Blue Moon type recipe.  I will be removing the chamomile and munich malt.  What about hops?  Any thought on that.  I'll use the wyeast witbier yeast.
Mdixon's recipe is straight forward.  Your hop schedule is fine.  Chamomile adds some complexity and aromatics, but you need a bit more than .03 ounces to notice it.
See you Tuesday!
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
Homebrewing since 1990
AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member
BJCP judge since 1995

Offline gmac

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2021
  • London, Ontario
    • View Profile
Re: Witbier help
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2013, 10:45:34 PM »
I also batch sparge in the big blue cooler. But I assume you have a pot to boil in. Just do the steps up to mash out in the pot and them transfer to yout cooler. Heat some water and sparge as normal. Since you have mashed out, nothing bad will happen while you heat water and sparge.

I boil my wheat a bit before and add water,and mash it up with my hands. Add your barley and away you go.

Offline guido

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 219
    • View Profile
Re: Witbier help
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2013, 02:25:51 AM »
I think an extra "0" was added for the coriander.  I added about 0.4 oz.  I tried Indian coriander for the first time and liked it.  Also added about .25 oz. of chamomile. Lastly, the zest from a dozen oranges was added at knockout and in the carboy a few days before kegging.  The orange was probably more than the judges would have liked, but my wife and I loved it.
Well...I woke up this morning and I got myself a beer

     -"Roadhouse Blues,"  Jim Morrison

Offline mripa

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Beer
    • View Profile
Re: Witbier help
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2013, 05:18:23 PM »
I also batch sparge in the big blue cooler. But I assume you have a pot to boil in. Just do the steps up to mash out in the pot and them transfer to yout cooler. Heat some water and sparge as normal. Since you have mashed out, nothing bad will happen while you heat water and sparge.

I boil my wheat a bit before and add water,and mash it up with my hands. Add your barley and away you go.
Yes I have 2 kettles so I could do that..
More questions:
Gelatinize raw wheat by boiling for 15 min then
Bring "x" amount of water to boil - add raw wheat and boil for 15 minutes? How much water?
How do you account for this water in your total mash water?

104° F 10 min
122° F 30 min
Can I transfer to mash cooler at this point to hold at 153?
153° F 60 min
170° F 10 min

New to this type of mash so maybe more questions coming   lol

Offline mabrungard

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1097
    • View Profile
    • Bru'n Water
Re: Witbier help
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2013, 06:57:16 PM »

I did do one with Chamomile and it gets over powering really easily.  Now I leave it out and just do the orange and Indian (notice I said "INDIAN") coriander. 
Man, now you got me thinking about it and I've gotta brew this again.

Just looked at your chamomile amount again. 0.03 isn't even enough to bother with.  I found 1 oz to be over powering and I'd go down to maybe 0.25 oz.  And for your orange zest, I don't know how much I had but the zest of a dozen oranges is not too much.  The real orange character comes from the coriander (did I mention I really like Indian coriander better?).

Hmm?  I've used Indian and Mexican coriander and agree that the Indian species adds citrus notes.  But I find them lemony.  I prefer the peppery character of the Mexican coriander in conjunction with the citrus notes provided by the orange peel.  Lemon and orange without the contrast of the pepper is not refreshing to me. 

Another important factor is to have enough acidity in the finished beer.  This can also be a case where a moderate alkalinity and the need to acidify with lactic acid could be an enhancement.  An alkalinity in the 100 to 200 ppm range with a dose of lactic acid to create the proper pH conditions could add that lactic 'twang' that melds well in this style.  Remember, this is a crisp and refreshing beer. 
Martin B
Carmel, IN

BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water

Offline gmac

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2021
  • London, Ontario
    • View Profile
Re: Witbier help
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2013, 07:54:35 PM »
I also batch sparge in the big blue cooler. But I assume you have a pot to boil in. Just do the steps up to mash out in the pot and them transfer to yout cooler. Heat some water and sparge as normal. Since you have mashed out, nothing bad will happen while you heat water and sparge.

I boil my wheat a bit before and add water,and mash it up with my hands. Add your barley and away you go.
Yes I have 2 kettles so I could do that..
More questions:
Gelatinize raw wheat by boiling for 15 min then
Bring "x" amount of water to boil - add raw wheat and boil for 15 minutes? How much water?
How do you account for this water in your total mash water?

104° F 10 min
122° F 30 min
Can I transfer to mash cooler at this point to hold at 153?
153° F 60 min
170° F 10 min

New to this type of mash so maybe more questions coming   lol

I used about 5 L but I don't think it matters. I do mine the evening before and put I in the cooler. The water gets pretty much totally absorbed.
You could transfer at 153 but you will need to warm your cooler or you will lose heat. Or go up a few degrees beyond to compensate.  If you transfer it and its too low you can pull some out and do a sorta decoction to get it back to 153. I'm the sort that wouldn't worry if it was a degree above or below but others may.