Author Topic: The Great Double IPA Project  (Read 2251 times)

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2013, 06:39:40 PM »
Hmmm my next discovery will be the hop stand. How do you do it?

Offline qm3k

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2013, 06:52:22 PM »
Wow, thanks for all the great input everyone! I have definitely decided to scrap mash hopping (I am flushing hops down the toilet as I type ;)) and give FWH a whirl.

I have started the basic construction of the beer and would love feedback on the grain bill (I'll go into hops later...). This is just a rough outline and I'll give quantities in percentages rather than poundage of grain (in case anyone wonders, I started out by constructing the bill on paper, then moved to BeerSmith, which is why all of the percentages are in decimals...as I tweaked the gravity, etc., that's just how the program spit out the results).

Maris Otter Malt -- 81%
Munich Malt -- 5.7%
CaraPils -- 4.8%
Crystal 40 -- 3.6%
Dextrose -- 4.8%

This brings me to an estimated O.G. of 1.080 and a color of 8.9 (I am not wedded to those values, but as a rough draft, that's what I set out to get)

I am using the dextrose to of course boost the gravity while increasing fermentability -- I am going for a pretty dry beer to allow the hops to blast through. I know that I can accomplish this with mash temperature, but the recipes that I have brewed have all used dextrose as well, so I figured I'd stick with it (incidentally, I plan to mash at 150F or even a bit lower).

My biggest concerns are the CaraPils and the proportion of crystal. I am keeping the crystal pretty low, gaining color from the Munich malt (as recommended in the Steele article). The CaraPils is for head retention, and I have seen it in other recipes. However, I think I may be able to accomplish the same thing with a portion of wheat malt, although I don't recall seeing that in other examples.

Feedback is welcome and appreciated! This is fun...I should build more of my own recipes (unless, of course, this grain bill is a recipe for sewage...)

Thanks!

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2013, 07:05:38 PM »
On hopstands, there are different schools of thought on temp and time, so I'll tell you what I do, Jim.  I don't have a pump (yet), so I don't do a true whirlpool, but I like the results I get pretty well.  I chill to under 190F, because from 190+ you get a fair amount more hop isomerization (bitterness), and my goal here is primarily to preserve more of the volatile oils , in order to get great hop flavor (though you will get some added bitterness). So I chill to ~ 185 -180F, add the hops, put on the lid, and leave alone. Some guys try to maintain a temp for hop standing - , I don't.  I like 45 minutes for IPA, but you can get a nice, noticeable flavor @ 30 minutes. You can go 90 minutes +, but I like the flavor @ 45, and it doesn't make the brew day so long.  Dryhopping and a hopstand in an AIPA is where it's at for me.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 08:17:49 PM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2013, 07:39:34 PM »
Thanks, I'll be giving it a shot.

Offline fmader

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2013, 07:43:59 PM »
Good stuff, Jon. I always just tossed my hops in at flame out and waited about 15-20 minutes until I started chilling. I never thought about chilling a bit first to get away from boiling temps. Makes sense. I'll try this with my next IPA which will probably be my Zythos Pounder in a few weeks.
Frank

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2013, 08:03:08 PM »
Good stuff, Jon. I always just tossed my hops in at flame out and waited about 15-20 minutes until I started chilling. I never thought about chilling a bit first to get away from boiling temps. Makes sense. I'll try this with my next IPA which will probably be my Zythos Pounder in a few weeks.
I've done that too Frank.  If you read up on hopstands, there are different temp ranges that people use.  If you go cooler for longer time, you supposedly retain more aroma compounds, which are driven off at higher temps. But in American styles where I dry hop  (and I'm not shy with dry hops), I more than have that covered.  It works well for me.
Jon H.

Offline denny

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2013, 09:25:41 AM »
Somewhere someone told me to count FWH as a 20 minute. But the gas chronometer test shows maybe it should be 70 min? I guess it doesn't matter too much. Just curious
It's more of a sensory perception thing than a measurement thing.  The bitterness is still there, but it tastes different.

Yep, that's it exactly.  Subjectively, to me it comes across as the same amount of bitterness I get from a 20 min, addition, even though it measure more.  Since I'm usually more interested in drinking my beer than measuring it, I call it 20 min.!
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Offline denny

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2013, 09:28:08 AM »
My biggest concerns are the CaraPils and the proportion of crystal. I am keeping the crystal pretty low, gaining color from the Munich malt (as recommended in the Steele article). The CaraPils is for head retention, and I have seen it in other recipes. However, I think I may be able to accomplish the same thing with a portion of wheat malt, although I don't recall seeing that in other examples.

Feedback is welcome and appreciated! This is fun...I should build more of my own recipes (unless, of course, this grain bill is a recipe for sewage...)

Thanks!

The carapils and sugar are at odds with each other.  One will lighten the body, the other will increase it.  You don't need carapils for foam.  Good fermentation techniques are much more important.  See http://byo.com/stories/item/693-getting-good-beer-foam-techniques .
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Offline qm3k

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2013, 11:11:41 AM »
Thanks, Denny. Great article.

I've never actually had any real trouble with foam, even in beers that I felt were drain-worthy. It may have tasted like crap, but it was foamy...

Anyway, I'll rework the grain bill without the CaraPils. Thanks!

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2013, 11:47:03 AM »
Early on I thought every beer needed carapils. It took a while but I was finally talked out of using it. Not needed usually and brings no flavor to the party IMHO

Offline qm3k

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2013, 07:49:59 AM »
I have tweaked my grain bill and am now in the process of setting up the hop schedule. This is giving me a bit of trouble, so I'd love feedback on my preliminary outline.

1 oz. Centennial -- FWH
1 oz. Simcoe -- FWH
1 oz. Centennial -- 60 min.
1 oz. Simcoe -- 60 min
1 oz. Centennial -- 30 min
1 oz. Amarillo -- 30 min
1 oz. Citra -- 15 min
1 oz. Amarillo -- 10 min
1 oz. Citra -- 0 min
1 oz Amarillo -- 0 min

I haven't come up with dry hops yet, although I will probably hit it with a few additions if Amarillo and Ctra again. As you can see, I'm not being very adventurous with ratios of each hop...each addition is simply 1 oz. I am also calculating for 7 gallons post boil so my finished beer after massive hop loss will be in the neighborhood of 5 gallons (I have done this with past brews of this style and have been pretty successful). BeerSmith puts me at about 220 IBU...over the top enough?

So, are there any alterations that anyone would suggest, or am I on the right track? This is the first time I've ever constructed a hop schedule...

Thanks!

« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 07:54:47 AM by qm3k »

Offline garc_mall

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2013, 08:49:20 AM »
I think that you have a fine IIPA hop schedule.

However, if I were to do a IIPA flavored with these hops, This is how I would structure it.

1oz Cent -FWH
1oz Sim - FWH
1-1.5 oz CTZ (whatever gets you into your desired IBU range) - 60
1oz each Citra, Amarillo, Centennial at 10 or 5
1oz each Simcoe Amarillo, Citra at 0 (Hopstand 45 minutes)

I have become a huge fan of late hops, and not so much the middle hops.
My IPA and APA are now only hopped at FWH, 5 and 0, with a 30-60 minute hopstand.

Mitch Steele talked at NHC this year about how he has moved in this direction as well, and Stone's newer IPAs are some of my favorite IPAs I can find. I don't personally need a whole lot of bitterness, but I want a huge amount of hop flavor and aroma in my IPAs.
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Offline fmader

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2013, 09:18:54 AM »
I like the combination of those hops. I would push your 15 and 10 minute additions out to 0 min. As far as dry hops go, I wouldn't use any less than 3 oz...I'd push it to around 5 oz.
Frank

Offline denny

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2013, 09:39:57 AM »
I have tweaked my grain bill and am now in the process of setting up the hop schedule. This is giving me a bit of trouble, so I'd love feedback on my preliminary outline.

1 oz. Centennial -- FWH
1 oz. Simcoe -- FWH
1 oz. Centennial -- 60 min.
1 oz. Simcoe -- 60 min
1 oz. Centennial -- 30 min
1 oz. Amarillo -- 30 min
1 oz. Citra -- 15 min
1 oz. Amarillo -- 10 min
1 oz. Citra -- 0 min
1 oz Amarillo -- 0 min

I haven't come up with dry hops yet, although I will probably hit it with a few additions if Amarillo and Ctra again. As you can see, I'm not being very adventurous with ratios of each hop...each addition is simply 1 oz. I am also calculating for 7 gallons post boil so my finished beer after massive hop loss will be in the neighborhood of 5 gallons (I have done this with past brews of this style and have been pretty successful). BeerSmith puts me at about 220 IBU...over the top enough?

So, are there any alterations that anyone would suggest, or am I on the right track? This is the first time I've ever constructed a hop schedule...

Thanks!

What's the AA content of the hops you're using?
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: The Great Double IPA Project
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2013, 10:12:28 AM »
You want huge hop flavor and aroma for IIPA.  I dry hop 5 or 6 oz for AIPA , and usually a couple dry hop additions of 4 or 5 oz each (~7 days each) for IIPA.  I like the choice of hops.
Jon H.