Author Topic: Lid on or off during boil?  (Read 6219 times)

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2013, 07:13:40 AM »
I meant in terms of all grain brewing - extract is clearly free of DMS issues, as long as you use Muntons, anyway!

well, none of the technical staff at Muntons could think of a reason why there would be a problem.
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Jonathan I Fuller

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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2013, 08:31:32 AM »
I meant in terms of all grain brewing - extract is clearly free of DMS issues, as long as you use Muntons, anyway!

well, none of the technical staff at Muntons could think of a reason why there would be a problem.

I can't see how there would be.  Extract is wort that has been boiled.  That drives off SMM/DMS.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2013, 08:49:06 AM »
I meant in terms of all grain brewing - extract is clearly free of DMS issues, as long as you use Muntons, anyway!

well, none of the technical staff at Muntons could think of a reason why there would be a problem.

I can't see how there would be.  Extract is wort that has been boiled.  That drives off SMM/DMS.

failed joke. perhaps an emoticon was in order. simply saying they did not say 'there is no SMM/DMS in our extract' but 'We have never tested for these compounds in the final products, but it is the consensus of our technical team that it is extremely unlikely that they will be found.'
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2013, 05:17:52 PM »
Started to type a new thread but I remembered his one and thought I'd extend the discussion.

My question is, do you think a pro setup with the covered kettle and 15% stack, helps to retain malt flavor and aroma compounds better than an open boil?  I used to think boiling good and hard would create the kinds of compounds that smell good but I'm wondering if its the opposite.  Maybe I should be boiling more to the minimum to get rid of SMM, and no more.
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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2013, 07:49:36 PM »
Did find a blurb in Textbook of Brewing that said using the condensate to enhance beer flavor had been tried but wasn't effective.  I think they were mostly looking for essential hop oils though.
Lennie
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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2013, 09:15:28 AM »
Started to type a new thread but I remembered his one and thought I'd extend the discussion.

My question is, do you think a pro setup with the covered kettle and 15% stack, helps to retain malt flavor and aroma compounds better than an open boil?  I used to think boiling good and hard would create the kinds of compounds that smell good but I'm wondering if its the opposite.  Maybe I should be boiling more to the minimum to get rid of SMM, and no more.

SWAG, but I answer no.
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Offline yso191

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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2013, 09:37:11 AM »
Started to type a new thread but I remembered his one and thought I'd extend the discussion.

My question is, do you think a pro setup with the covered kettle and 15% stack, helps to retain malt flavor and aroma compounds better than an open boil?  I used to think boiling good and hard would create the kinds of compounds that smell good but I'm wondering if its the opposite.  Maybe I should be boiling more to the minimum to get rid of SMM, and no more.

What comes to my mind is the creation of melanoidins.  The harder the boil the more melanoidins, which means more flavor and color components.  I know this doesn't relate to how much the kettle is covered, but it does relate to 'boiling good and hard FWIW.
Steve

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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2013, 10:25:13 AM »
What comes to my mind is the creation of melanoidins.  The harder the boil the more melanoidins, which means more flavor and color components.  I know this doesn't relate to how much the kettle is covered, but it does relate to 'boiling good and hard FWIW.

Melanoidins do not create flavor, but the reactions that create melanoidins also create flavor.
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Offline yso191

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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2013, 12:09:11 PM »
What comes to my mind is the creation of melanoidins.  The harder the boil the more melanoidins, which means more flavor and color components.  I know this doesn't relate to how much the kettle is covered, but it does relate to 'boiling good and hard FWIW.

Melanoidins do not create flavor, but the reactions that create melanoidins also create flavor.

Good clarification.  I agree.
Steve

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2013, 01:09:10 PM »
What comes to my mind is the creation of melanoidins.  The harder the boil the more melanoidins, which means more flavor and color components.  I know this doesn't relate to how much the kettle is covered, but it does relate to 'boiling good and hard FWIW.

Melanoidins do not create flavor, but the reactions that create melanoidins also create flavor.

I am not disputing that. Are there any references so that I can read more on Melanoidins vs Maillard reactions?
Jeff Rankert
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2013, 01:38:44 PM »
Melanoidins are a product of Maillard reactions, and I thought these didn't occur in aqueous environments.  In any case they are high molecular weight as they are cross-linked sugars.amino acids so unlikely to esxcape from a kettle in the steam.  You do smell malt in the steam, and I'm wondering if minimizing the escape would improve beer.  I don't suppose anyone has a homebrew setup that utilizes a stack like a commercial system?
Lennie
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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #56 on: October 03, 2013, 02:08:38 PM »
What comes to my mind is the creation of melanoidins.  The harder the boil the more melanoidins, which means more flavor and color components.  I know this doesn't relate to how much the kettle is covered, but it does relate to 'boiling good and hard FWIW.

Melanoidins do not create flavor, but the reactions that create melanoidins also create flavor.

I am not disputing that. Are there any references so that I can read more on Melanoidins vs Maillard reactions?

I _think_ I recall McGee writing about it in "On Food and Cooking".  I got a lot of my info from a conversation with Randy Mosher.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #57 on: October 03, 2013, 02:56:55 PM »
What comes to my mind is the creation of melanoidins.  The harder the boil the more melanoidins, which means more flavor and color components.  I know this doesn't relate to how much the kettle is covered, but it does relate to 'boiling good and hard FWIW.

Melanoidins do not create flavor, but the reactions that create melanoidins also create flavor.

I am not disputing that. Are there any references so that I can read more on Melanoidins vs Maillard reactions?

I _think_ I recall McGee writing about it in "On Food and Cooking".  I got a lot of my info from a conversation with Randy Mosher.

The Harold McGee book is one I need to put on reserve at the library. It is on my list of books to read.
Jeff Rankert
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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2013, 08:53:55 AM »
The Harold McGee book is one I need to put on reserve at the library. It is on my list of books to read.

You won't regret it, Jeff.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Lid on or off during boil?
« Reply #59 on: October 04, 2013, 09:36:26 AM »
The Harold McGee book is one I need to put on reserve at the library. It is on my list of books to read.

You won't regret it, Jeff.

I want to get my hands on this one as well.
Ron Price