Author Topic: Decoction Tips?  (Read 2430 times)

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Decoction Tips?
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2013, 02:34:31 PM »
This is how Jeff Renner does his cereal mash for CAP.  I think he has a really big pressure cooker.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Decoction Tips?
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2013, 07:35:25 AM »
I seem to recall somebody did a side by side comparison of a beer with a decoction mash and a step mash with melanoidin malt and had a bunch of people judge the beer and people noticed a difference but thought the melanoidin malt beer was smoother and more pleasant. I seem to think Nateo posted it on his blog a long time ago but I haven't seen him around these parts in a while.

Outside of maybe making more starches easily available for conversion, I'm not a huge believer that decoction mashes offer a lot that a step mash doesn't but there is probably a subtle difference. I imagine very long boils on the decoction probably makes more of a difference but a 10-15 minute boil probably isn't creating as many flavor compounds. I do know some pro brewers swear by decoction mashes when using undermodified malt. I can see the need for the decoctions to help with conversion.

Since I don't have mash tuns that sit on burners I have to do my step mashes by decoction or infusion. I've never made a beer with a decoction mash I disliked but I also haven't found that magic touch either.
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Offline dcbc

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Re: Decoction Tips?
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2013, 07:58:47 AM »
This is how Jeff Renner does his cereal mash for CAP.  I think he has a really big pressure cooker.

I think mine is 20 qt.  With a larger inner container, I could do a pretty sizable decoction in there.
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Offline dcbc

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Re: Decoction Tips?
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2013, 08:06:11 AM »
I seem to recall somebody did a side by side comparison of a beer with a decoction mash and a step mash with melanoidin malt and had a bunch of people judge the beer and people noticed a difference but thought the melanoidin malt beer was smoother and more pleasant. I seem to think Nateo posted it on his blog a long time ago but I haven't seen him around these parts in a while.

Outside of maybe making more starches easily available for conversion, I'm not a huge believer that decoction mashes offer a lot that a step mash doesn't but there is probably a subtle difference. I imagine very long boils on the decoction probably makes more of a difference but a 10-15 minute boil probably isn't creating as many flavor compounds. I do know some pro brewers swear by decoction mashes when using undermodified malt. I can see the need for the decoctions to help with conversion.

Since I don't have mash tuns that sit on burners I have to do my step mashes by decoction or infusion. I've never made a beer with a decoction mash I disliked but I also haven't found that magic touch either.

I have made a bopils with a double Hochkurz decoction and have made that same bopils with a temp controlled step mash at the same temps.  No difference for my pallet and, frankly, I recall the latter to have been a better beer.  That said, the helles that I did this quick and easy decoction on was a very fine beer and had some subtle nuances that the same beer with melenoiden malt just doesn't have (I'm not saying that melenoiden malt attributes flavors resembling decocted beers). 

In my opinion, a traditional blood sweat and tears decoction isn't worth my effort.  But the pressure cooker method is so easy that I may get a portable electric burner so I can do it right next to the brew rig on occasion.  Even after 15 minutes, there was a noticeable aroma on the decocted grist that the rest of the mash just didn't have.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Decoction Tips?
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2013, 10:15:10 AM »
This is how Jeff Renner does his cereal mash for CAP.  I think he has a really big pressure cooker.

I think mine is 20 qt.  With a larger inner container, I could do a pretty sizable decoction in there.
Jeff Renner's is about 22qt IIRC.
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Offline dcbc

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Re: Decoction Tips?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2013, 03:06:22 PM »
This is how Jeff Renner does his cereal mash for CAP.  I think he has a really big pressure cooker.

I think mine is 20 qt.  With a larger inner container, I could do a pretty sizable decoction in there.
Jeff Renner's is about 22qt IIRC.

Just checked.  Mine is a 23 qt Presto.  I got it to can starter wort.
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Offline hokerer

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Re: Decoction Tips?
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2013, 09:55:32 AM »
This is how Jeff Renner does his cereal mash for CAP.  I think he has a really big pressure cooker.

I think mine is 20 qt.  With a larger inner container, I could do a pretty sizable decoction in there.
Jeff Renner's is about 22qt IIRC.

Just checked.  Mine is a 23 qt Presto.  I got it to can starter wort.

Same one I've got.  Perfect size for Renner's pseudo-decoction.
Joe

Offline nateo

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Re: Decoction Tips?
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2014, 12:07:19 PM »
I seem to think Nateo posted it on his blog a long time ago but I haven't seen him around these parts in a while.

I'm still alive! But yeah, real life has kept me pretty occupied. I haven't had time for brewing since maybe June.

It's been a long time, so I can't remember the details, but from talking to some German brewers, apparently there is a "traditional" brewery over there that still uses the old techniques. IIRC they did a decoction mash pretty much all day, then a 3-4 hour boil. If I remember the name I'll post it.

Just FYI, most pro and hobby brewers in Germany think decoction is wasteful of time and energy (it is) and kinda silly. However, they love step-mashes with at least 3 steps, although 4-5 are typical, which I think is also silly.

FWIW I think most of the allure of decoction is merely the fetishization of the popular conception of German brewing. It's kinda like foreign branding, or the nonsensical use of umlauts, a la "Haüs Of Growlers."
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Offline nateo

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Re: Decoction Tips?
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2014, 04:57:28 AM »
That brewery I was thinking of is in Ummerstadt, in Thüringen, on the border with Oberfranken. It's called Ummerstädter Kommunbräu. The do two 90 min decoction boils, then a 5 hour wort boil. One of the guys on the Hobbybrauer forum (Berliner) took a trip there, and took some pictures. It's pretty wild: http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php?name=eBoard&file=viewthread&fid=1&tid=12790&page=11&orderdate=ASC

People seem to rave about the beer. It's an easy-drinking copper lager (the color is from all the boiling, no doubt), and people call it fruity, powerfully musty (?), flat, and with a sharp, strong hop aroma. I don't know. I think 50% of a beer's flavor comes from where you drink it and who you drink it with, so maybe they've all got the beerfest goggles on and it's not objectively that good.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 05:21:12 AM by nateo »
In der Kürze liegt die Würze.