Author Topic: NHC Entry Limits for 2014  (Read 6355 times)

Online morticaixavier

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2013, 08:09:52 AM »

Wow! Would someone actually send in entries if it cost $30 each?  That is steep, but clearly the demand is high and the amount of support the AHA can provide to the judges is limited. $15 may be a little low, but $30 is really pushing it.   I do think that pricing should be increased to help moderate the demand and allow the AHA to better support the judges that otherwise donate everything to do this 'service' to their fellow homebrewers. 

man I hope not.  It was $12 this year and I think $15 is about as high as I'll go.  $20? - yeah I'm out.  Maybe $20+ makes sense to me if we ever have to go to three rounds.

I totally agree. the problem with using price to marrow entry is that you narrow your entries with no regard to general quality of the entry. Unless there is solid evidence that the quality of beer goes up with the income of the brewer.

actually sure, make it 30 bucks but limit to 1 entry per person.
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Offline denny

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2013, 08:43:06 AM »
Subcommittee reports, including one from the comp subcommittee, are posted here....

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0001/6518/AHAGC_subcom_report_2013.pdf
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2013, 09:04:08 AM »
"Due to the overwhelming demand for the competition, drastic changes will be required for the next year."

well that seems rather ominous, but I guess we'll see. 
I'll wait until we've been given at least, say, 35% of the new information before I freak out.   ;D

good luck guys; keep up updated!

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Offline bluesman

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2013, 09:37:50 AM »
Subcommittee reports, including one from the comp subcommittee, are posted here....

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0001/6518/AHAGC_subcom_report_2013.pdf

You beat me to it Denny.

We are working on several options to enhance the competition for next year and the years to come. The committee has been hashing out details for many months now. We believe we have some viable modifications to help improve the ever increasing demand for the competition.
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Offline macbrews

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2013, 11:11:36 AM »
While I don't know the financial state of the AHA, it seems to me that the NHC is a cash cow.  If this is true, I would think that a limit of the total entries per participant would be a fairer method.  Significantly increasing the cost of entries would hurt those with less monetary resources.

The opportunity to compete in the NHC should be open to as many as possible. 

Mac

Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2013, 11:27:10 AM »
While I don't know the financial state of the AHA, it seems to me that the NHC is a cash cow. 
I doubt that. Competitions rarely make money. Even with the high entry costs of NHC, remember that there are two rounds to pay for with tons of logistics, refridgerated storage, competition space (final round in Philly was at the Convention Center), etc. And though judges aren't paid, judging isn't free. You have to pay for food for judges, competition supplies, thank you gifts, - at the convention center I'm sure they even paid to rent the tables and chairs.

Though I do agree that raising the entry fee would not work. It would cut people based on ability to pay rather than ability to brew. I think more people should get a chance to enter, but not unlimited beers. Only those who've performed well should get to compete for Ninkasi. Essentially, I'd like a mechanism where you must prove your skills to get higher numbers of entries. Perhaps those who medal one year would get more entries (and guaranteed entrance) the next.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 11:31:44 AM by mtnrockhopper »
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Online theDarkSide

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2013, 11:38:21 AM »
I'm sure like everything else in the craft/homebrew beer business, the words cash cow rarely come up.  Although I've seen interviews at Charlie's house, which looks really nice  ;)

One of the things I'd like to see with this year's competition is more consistent handling/understanding of releasing the scroresheets.  Some sheets last year went out right after the comp, some were held until the final release of the results.  Also, marking the place on the cover sheet would be handy.  I know in the past, I almost drank the rest of my beer that made it through because no place was marked and other in different regions said theirs were.

Whatever is decided, I would at least like to see it consistent among all the regions.
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Offline macbrews

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2013, 12:16:29 PM »
Cash cow is probably a bit strong but it seems that it should be revenue positive.  What is the bottom line?  Is it self-supporting?  Is it a yearly fund raiser for other much needed but less revenue generating projects of the AHA?  Just doing some quick math - at ~$200+ a pop to attend the conference for 3-4K people, $12 per each of the 7.5K+ entrants and the revenue generated from the retailers - it would seem to be approaching a cool mill in total revenues.  Without knowing the finances I can only guess.

If it is indeed self-supporting, then don't raise the fees.  If it is in the red, then do what it takes.  Just don't borrow any money from China.......

Offline AmandaK

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2013, 12:47:12 PM »

Whatever is decided, I would at least like to see it consistent among all the regions.

Whoever was running those later competitions didn't read the site organizers handbook, it clearly stated that you could send score sheets out as soon as you could.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2013, 01:14:24 PM »
Cash cow is probably a bit strong but it seems that it should be revenue positive.  What is the bottom line?  Is it self-supporting?  Is it a yearly fund raiser for other much needed but less revenue generating projects of the AHA?  Just doing some quick math - at ~$200+ a pop to attend the conference for 3-4K people, $12 per each of the 7.5K+ entrants and the revenue generated from the retailers - it would seem to be approaching a cool mill in total revenues.  Without knowing the finances I can only guess.

If it is indeed self-supporting, then don't raise the fees.  If it is in the red, then do what it takes.  Just don't borrow any money from China.......

From the GC report, the Conference has been profitable since 2007. Before that, you can infer some years were not.

There are many costs that have to be taken care of, Security, cleaning of carpets (beer you know), the BA and AHA staff that make it happen, the cellar crew, the refrigerated space, the hotel staff that sets the conf rooms up and turns it around for the banquet, the list has to be long.

If the Conf. and competition make some money, then that would fund other activities and more AHA staff to concentrate on the AHA members. The Research and Education Fund would be an example (see the GC report).
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Offline phunhog

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2013, 01:15:20 PM »
2013 was my first NHC and I hate to say it but I was disappointed on many levels.  It just seemed like everything from registering, to getting results, to getting actual scoresheets was a cluster.  Even the judging, at least in my case was ho-hum.  I had one beer advance all the way to Philly and made the mini bos in category.  In all that judging I only had one judge ranked National or higher evaluate my beer. The rest were either Provisional, Recognized, or Certified.  I can enter just about any BJCP and receive the same level of judging.  I entered my beers in the NHC because I thought it would get before the "best" judges out there....ideally at least National level in the 2nd round.  In my case it didn't happen
As far as entry limits. Two ways to go about it.  Keep the entry fee the same and just put a cap of 5-7 entries...everyone gets a chance to enter their best beers. The second way is keep the entry cap at 15 beers but up the entry fee to 20-25 dollars per entry. Again if you REALLY want to enter the NHC you will find a way and enter your best beers. Either way will solve the problem.

Offline udubdawg

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2013, 02:27:30 PM »
It would be nice to know any entry limits or significant changes a bit earlier for 2014.  I believe we found out on January 24th this year?  I had been preparing for months by that point.  If the entry limit is going to be 3, I can probably stop now.   ;)

Offline gmac

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2013, 02:49:32 PM »
I'm going to enter at least 40 beers to the Canadian entry site...Oh, wait. There isn't one.  Glad I didn't spend the money on an AHA membership this year.

Online morticaixavier

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2013, 03:42:26 PM »
I'm going to enter at least 40 beers to the Canadian entry site...Oh, wait. There isn't one.  Glad I didn't spend the money on an AHA membership this year.

hell hath no snark like a Canadian scorned.
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Offline gmac

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2013, 03:49:12 PM »
I'm going to enter at least 40 beers to the Canadian entry site...Oh, wait. There isn't one.  Glad I didn't spend the money on an AHA membership this year.

hell hath no snark like a Canadian scorned.
Nope, no snark.  This goes back a bit.  I'd be happy to really let loose if you want but I actually like and respect most of the AHA members so I've been very polite (as we always are) for a long time now. 
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 03:51:27 PM by gmac »