Author Topic: NHC Entry Limits for 2014  (Read 6272 times)

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2013, 03:44:25 PM »
Pretty much how I look at it. Ideally every AHA member sends their best and we measure lol

Offline udubdawg

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2013, 03:57:08 PM »
to me it would appear that the AHA is interested in answering one of the questions we know they have asked:  "What is the interest level?"  I don't disagree with wanting this information, I just fear the number is really large...

we know they have filled up.  We don't know exactly how many people have missed out.
So open "registration" and find out the interest level.  Maybe it is 27K entries among 6K entrants.  Then announce that the limit (that I suspect they know, or will soon) is 11.25K, or whatever the real number is.  They'll try to please as many people as possible and truncate entries/person above that point.

just my guess.   :-\
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 04:14:49 PM by udubdawg »

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2013, 04:03:11 PM »
Maybe forum post count will be considered lol

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2013, 05:24:13 AM »
I'm sure when they release the details it will be more clear, but the last line has me wondering.  I'm curious if you submit your entries, and they "pull from a hat" which ones can go in.

Either way, there's sure to be some complaining  ;)
They've always allowed you to change categories. Hopefully they just tell you how many you get and you pick which ones you want - or you specify preference when signing up. Actually, that would be better. Getting people to log back in will be tough.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2013, 07:22:36 AM »
If the lottery results in some people having more opportunities to enter beers then that has a big impact on who can win ninkasi. I have to imagine few people really enter with the expectation of competing for the ninkasi but if you were one with that goal it would really suck to pull a low number in the lottery.

Why not treat the NHC as sort of the playoffs of homebrewing competitions? Rather than make it an open competition, set a requirement that beers can only be entered if they have scored a minimum score in one or more AHA-sanctioned competitions. It shouldn't be that hard to coordinate a database of results from sanctioned local competitions. The cutoffs could be set to allow the maximum number of beers the AHA can support appearing at the NHC. In the alternative you could require a beer to pick up a designated number of points to qualify where points are earned based on scores at sanctioned competitions. If necessary, the local clubs could be required to pay back a flat amount or portion of entry fees in exchange for becoming a qualifying event.

It's win-win. It focuses entries towards local competitions where brewers are more likely to get detailed notes. It also cuts out low scoring beers from the NHC infrastructure, which opens more spots for quality beers. Honestly, there is no reason for beers below 35 points being judged at the NHC.
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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2013, 07:34:53 AM »
It shouldn't be that hard to ...
Famous last words. Right up there with 'I would have thought that ...' and 'The obvious solution is ...'
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Offline brewmanator

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2013, 07:50:00 AM »
If the lottery results in some people having more opportunities to enter beers then that has a big impact on who can win ninkasi. I have to imagine few people really enter with the expectation of competing for the ninkasi but if you were one with that goal it would really suck to pull a low number in the lottery.

Why not treat the NHC as sort of the playoffs of homebrewing competitions? Rather than make it an open competition, set a requirement that beers can only be entered if they have scored a minimum score in one or more AHA-sanctioned competitions. It shouldn't be that hard to coordinate a database of results from sanctioned local competitions. The cutoffs could be set to allow the maximum number of beers the AHA can support appearing at the NHC. In the alternative you could require a beer to pick up a designated number of points to qualify where points are earned based on scores at sanctioned competitions. If necessary, the local clubs could be required to pay back a flat amount or portion of entry fees in exchange for becoming a qualifying event.

It's win-win. It focuses entries towards local competitions where brewers are more likely to get detailed notes. It also cuts out low scoring beers from the NHC infrastructure, which opens more spots for quality beers. Honestly, there is no reason for beers below 35 points being judged at the NHC.

I disagree wholeheartedly with having to pre-qualify for this competition.  NHC should be about inclusion.  There is perfectly fine competition called MCAB, Master Championship of Amatuer Brewing, that does just what you describe above.  If this is what you strive for then target your entries toward that competition.  Any AHA member should have an equal chance to enter at least one beer into NHC.  After that every member should have an equal chance to enter a second beer.  I am glad that they have instituted this sort of "pre-registration" that 1) gauges the interest of all the members and 2) eliminates the need to register at one particular time during the middle of a workday.  If there are more entrants than entries then good luck with the lottery.  I hope they do the lottery the right way, and only institute it if it is needed (more entrants than entries).

- Mike

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2013, 08:43:20 AM »

NHC should be about inclusion.

I agree in principle but at some point the competition is going to become larger than what the AHA can organize, particularly when you are talking about amassing judges to accurately judge that much beer. Lines will have to be drawn somewhere. Some people will always feel left out, whether it is because they couldn't get any beers entered or because they didn't get several highly regarded beers into the competition.
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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2013, 08:47:24 AM »
If the lottery results in some people having more opportunities to enter beers then that has a big impact on who can win ninkasi. I have to imagine few people really enter with the expectation of competing for the ninkasi but if you were one with that goal it would really suck to pull a low number in the lottery.

Why not treat the NHC as sort of the playoffs of homebrewing competitions? Rather than make it an open competition, set a requirement that beers can only be entered if they have scored a minimum score in one or more AHA-sanctioned competitions. It shouldn't be that hard to coordinate a database of results from sanctioned local competitions. The cutoffs could be set to allow the maximum number of beers the AHA can support appearing at the NHC. In the alternative you could require a beer to pick up a designated number of points to qualify where points are earned based on scores at sanctioned competitions. If necessary, the local clubs could be required to pay back a flat amount or portion of entry fees in exchange for becoming a qualifying event.

It's win-win. It focuses entries towards local competitions where brewers are more likely to get detailed notes. It also cuts out low scoring beers from the NHC infrastructure, which opens more spots for quality beers. Honestly, there is no reason for beers below 35 points being judged at the NHC.

+1
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Offline denny

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2013, 08:53:58 AM »
It shouldn't be that hard to ...
Famous last words. Right up there with 'I would have thought that ...' and 'The obvious solution is ...'

No to mention "Here, hold my beer and watch this..."
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2013, 09:05:04 AM »
I just hope some clarification of the word "lottery" is forthcoming.

as long as less people register for the contest than they have entry slots, we can't really be mad, right?  I mean, I'd like to enter a bunch, but I recognize the inclusion and fairness of giving everyone possible a shot.  if 8-10K people register, we've got enough spots to give everyone one.  But maybe I'm underestimating the interest level, and as said previously it will be good to find out what it is.

contrast with finding out that your name wasn't picked from a lottery and you don't get to enter at all while others get multiple entries? - I think that would just change the uproar we experienced this year, not actually reduce it.   

I guess we'll find out...
cheers--
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2013, 09:33:55 AM »
If the lottery results in some people having more opportunities to enter beers then that has a big impact on who can win ninkasi. I have to imagine few people really enter with the expectation of competing for the ninkasi but if you were one with that goal it would really suck to pull a low number in the lottery.

Why not treat the NHC as sort of the playoffs of homebrewing competitions? Rather than make it an open competition, set a requirement that beers can only be entered if they have scored a minimum score in one or more AHA-sanctioned competitions. It shouldn't be that hard to coordinate a database of results from sanctioned local competitions. The cutoffs could be set to allow the maximum number of beers the AHA can support appearing at the NHC. In the alternative you could require a beer to pick up a designated number of points to qualify where points are earned based on scores at sanctioned competitions. If necessary, the local clubs could be required to pay back a flat amount or portion of entry fees in exchange for becoming a qualifying event.

It's win-win. It focuses entries towards local competitions where brewers are more likely to get detailed notes. It also cuts out low scoring beers from the NHC infrastructure, which opens more spots for quality beers. Honestly, there is no reason for beers below 35 points being judged at the NHC.

I will point out again that I had a beer score 42 at a 1000 entry competition here in MI, then it got a 32 a month later first round of NHC (Octoberfest, First round judge knocked it cause it was not a Maerzen). There are many beers that peak quickly and one would have to rebrew for first round. So is that rebrew qualified, as it is a different batch? I know that many rebrew for the second round, want your viewpoint.






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Offline courtneyt

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2013, 09:41:21 AM »
It sure seems like a lottery is overly complicated.  As an AHA member in good standing the thought of not being able to enter the competition is disturbing.  I would like to know that I'll have a reasonably assured chance to get at least a beer or two entered without having to jump though flaming hoops or rely on pure luck.  I've not followed a lot of the NHC competition limit posts very closely so this may have already been suggested but why not divide registration to the competition into three phases?

Phase I - Open to current AHA members only and limit entries to a small number like maybe just two or three at a reasonable price (let's say $12).  This should almost certainly guarantee each AHA member that wants to enter the competition the opportunity to do so. 

Phase II - Still open only to current AHA members and allows more active brewers the chance to enter additional beers but still in a limited quantity of perhaps four to six more entries at a slightly higher price ($17?).

Phase III - If there are any spots still available then open registration to anyone at a still higher price ($22?) but perhaps still with a limit or implement the lottery at this point. 

I think this approach would address the needs of the base membership by virtually guaranteeing ease of entry at a nominal level. It would also provide a better chance of allowing more competition intense members the likelihood of a greater level of participation.  Then finally, the open free-for-all or lottery could provide opportunities to outsiders so long as the appetite of current members does not meet or exceed the max number of entries.  This last part might also encourage nonmembers to join if they value the NHC.

I know this is still not perfect but I think that, above all else, it would provide protection to AHA members and eliminate some of the feeding frenzy that was experienced last year.

Just my two cents worth...

Cheers,
Courtney

Offline realbeerguy

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #58 on: October 21, 2013, 09:47:21 AM »
It sure seems like a lottery is overly complicated.  As an AHA member in good standing the thought of not being able to enter the competition is disturbing.  I would like to know that I'll have a reasonably assured chance to get at least a beer or two entered without having to jump though flaming hoops or rely on pure luck.  I've not followed a lot of the NHC competition limit posts very closely so this may have already been suggested but why not divide registration to the competition into three phases?

Phase I - Open to current AHA members only and limit entries to a small number like maybe just two or three at a reasonable price (let's say $12).  This should almost certainly guarantee each AHA member that wants to enter the competition the opportunity to do so. 

Phase II - Still open only to current AHA members and allows more active brewers the chance to enter additional beers but still in a limited quantity of perhaps four to six more entries at a slightly higher price ($17?).

Phase III - If there are any spots still available then open registration to anyone at a still higher price ($22?) but perhaps still with a limit or implement the lottery at this point. 

I think this approach would address the needs of the base membership by virtually guaranteeing ease of entry at a nominal level. It would also provide a better chance of allowing more competition intense members the likelihood of a greater level of participation.  Then finally, the open free-for-all or lottery could provide opportunities to outsiders so long as the appetite of current members does not meet or exceed the max number of entries.  This last part might also encourage nonmembers to join if they value the NHC.

I know this is still not perfect but I think that, above all else, it would provide protection to AHA members and eliminate some of the feeding frenzy that was experienced last year.

Just my two cents worth...

Cheers,
Courtney

+1 on the initally limiting to AHA members.  If you are that interested in brewing, you SHOULD be an AHA member
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Offline bluesman

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Re: NHC Entry Limits for 2014
« Reply #59 on: October 21, 2013, 09:54:34 AM »
I just hope some clarification of the word "lottery" is forthcoming.

as long as less people register for the contest than they have entry slots, we can't really be mad, right?  I mean, I'd like to enter a bunch, but I recognize the inclusion and fairness of giving everyone possible a shot.  if 8-10K people register, we've got enough spots to give everyone one.  But maybe I'm underestimating the interest level, and as said previously it will be good to find out what it is.

contrast with finding out that your name wasn't picked from a lottery and you don't get to enter at all while others get multiple entries? - I think that would just change the uproar we experienced this year, not actually reduce it.   

I guess we'll find out...
cheers--
--Michael

This great hobby has become ever so popular. We've reached the point where change is inevitable. The demand for NHC registrations has become more and more difficult to manage. We must change our strategy in an effort to overcome this ever increasing demand for entries. A lottery sytem will allow for everyone to have the same odds of participation. All AHA members will have an opportunity to compete. More details on the lottery will be forthcoming.
Ron Price