Author Topic: Sanitizer ingredients  (Read 1249 times)

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11654
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Sanitizer ingredients
« on: October 10, 2013, 09:01:19 AM »
I've been teaching a beginning homebrew class.  Last night, one of the guys in the class told me that he had a friend that worked for a restaurant supply store who had hooked him up with a no rinse sanitizer called  "Solution QA".  The active ingredients are n-alkyl (50% C14, 40% C12, 10% C16) dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride.  Anybody ever heard of this stuff or know anything about the ingredients?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4533
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Sanitizer ingredients
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2013, 09:15:18 AM »
Some breweries use Quatenary Ammonium as a sanitizer. There is a big chance that is the QA part.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline a10t2

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3157
  • Ask me why I don't like Chico!
    • View Profile
    • SeanTerrill.com
Re: Sanitizer ingredients
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2013, 09:40:27 AM »
"Quats" are the most common sanitizers for food service. They're really nasty for your skin and (especially) lungs, and they require fairly high concentrations, around 250 ppm, to be effective. I can't think of any reason they couldn't be used in a brewery; I've just never seen it.
Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
http://seanterrill.com/category/brewing/

Offline BrewArk

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
  • Rick - Newark, California
    • View Profile
    • BrewArk
Re: Sanitizer ingredients
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2013, 09:54:00 AM »
two minutes on Yahoo:
http://www.autochlor.net/?Module=42847C99-0511-458b-A4F8-033157542703&Key=6b8db0d5-4ab1-461f-98bb-41206008f5ef

Probably fine if you have it already and know how to use it.  Then again, it's probably no better, cheaper, or safer than what's already available @ your LHBS.

Personally, I don't like quats for disinfection because they need long contact times to work compared to the other options.
Beer...Now there's a temporary solution!

Na Zdraví

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11654
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Sanitizer ingredients
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2013, 10:24:18 AM »
two minutes on Yahoo:
http://www.autochlor.net/?Module=42847C99-0511-458b-A4F8-033157542703&Key=6b8db0d5-4ab1-461f-98bb-41206008f5ef

Probably fine if you have it already and know how to use it.  Then again, it's probably no better, cheaper, or safer than what's already available @ your LHBS.

Personally, I don't like quats for disinfection because they need long contact times to work compared to the other options.

The label of the stuff he's got specs a 60 second contact time.  He got it for free, so that's why he wants to use it.

Thanks for all the info, everybody!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline narvin

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1232
  • Baltimore
    • View Profile
Re: Sanitizer ingredients
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2013, 11:18:53 AM »
"quat (being cationic) will kill head retention in addition to giving the beer a medicine-like flavor profile"

http://www.birkocorp.com/brewery/white-papers/principles-of-cleaning-and-sanitizing/
Please do not reply if your an evil alien!
Thanks
Chris S.

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4533
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Sanitizer ingredients
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2013, 12:14:39 PM »
"quat (being cationic) will kill head retention in addition to giving the beer a medicine-like flavor profile"

http://www.birkocorp.com/brewery/white-papers/principles-of-cleaning-and-sanitizing/

One Brewpub we have brewed at uses quatenary ammonia for much of the non brewing surfaces. I got to spray down the floor in the open fermentation room with what they call jokingly, death spray.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 07:11:13 PM by hopfenundmalz »
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1681
    • View Profile
Re: Sanitizer ingredients
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2013, 01:16:47 PM »
An alkyl ammonium compound would act just like soap.  It has a hydrophobic tail (the alkyl group) and a hydrophilic head (the ammonium ion).
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11654
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Sanitizer ingredients
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2013, 01:34:53 PM »
An alkyl ammonium compound would act just like soap.  It has a hydrophobic tail (the alkyl group) and a hydrophilic head (the ammonium ion).

I love it when you talk dirty....:)
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline james

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 310
    • View Profile
Re: Sanitizer ingredients
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2013, 01:57:02 PM »
Quats are great in the brewery for anything that doesn't touch product

Offline Thirsty_Monk

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1839
  • Eau Claire WI
    • View Profile
Re: Sanitizer ingredients
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2013, 05:20:06 PM »
Quats are great in the brewery for anything that doesn't touch product
That is a great statement.

What else would I sanitize in the brewery other then the stuff that will come in contact with the beer.
Help me now.
Na Zdravie

On Tap At The TapRoom:
Bohemian Pilsner
Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
MaiBock
American Brown Ale
Marzen
Root beer

Offline a10t2

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3157
  • Ask me why I don't like Chico!
    • View Profile
    • SeanTerrill.com
Re: Sanitizer ingredients
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2013, 06:30:47 PM »
What else would I sanitize in the brewery other then the stuff that will come in contact with the beer.
Help me now.

Floor drains, seams in floors, outsides of tanks where condensation collects/drips...
Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
http://seanterrill.com/category/brewing/

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1681
    • View Profile
Re: Sanitizer ingredients
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2013, 07:31:38 AM »
An alkyl ammonium compound would act just like soap.  It has a hydrophobic tail (the alkyl group) and a hydrophilic head (the ammonium ion).

I love it when you talk dirty....:)
So does my wife, she's a science teacher.

Head and tail, doesn't get any better than that.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline jeffy

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2443
  • Tampa, Fl
    • View Profile
Re: Sanitizer ingredients
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2013, 08:49:52 AM »
An alkyl ammonium compound would act just like soap.  It has a hydrophobic tail (the alkyl group) and a hydrophilic head (the ammonium ion).

I love it when you talk dirty....:)
So does my wife, she's a science teacher.

Head and tail, doesn't get any better than that.

I'm surprised that Carl didn't chime in with "hearts"
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
Homebrewing since 1990
AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member
BJCP judge since 1995

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1003
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Re: Sanitizer ingredients
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2013, 03:32:09 PM »
I heard from someone in food proceeding that you don't want it on anything contacting product, so it would not work well in home brewing.  No science there, but getting it cheap doesn't justify wrecking a beer, potentially.  This is one of those areas that one of the mainstream products would be best to be recommended IMO.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"