[coastsidemike]

How do you put together a strong stater for lager yeast?

The background to this question is that I recently did a 2L starter of Wyeast 2206, bavarian lager.  My first lager where I've had good temp control (6 gallons of doppelbock, ~1.080).  From what I'm reading, the starter should have been a yeast cake of 3/4 to 1 inch in thickness that corresponds to 5L of starter. 

That's a big starter for me.  If I understand correctly, the process for building that would be something like so:

2L starter:  65 degrees, 2 days
cold-crash and decant: 1-2 days
add 2L more of wort:  65 degrees, 2 days
cold-crash and decant: 1-2 days
add 2L more of wort:  65 degrees, 2 days
cold-crash and decant: 1-2 days
brew, pitch at 50+ degrees

Am I over thinking this? I'm at day 8 after pitching, 53 degrees, and the batch still has krausen with a full flocculation.  Not that there is a problem, just curious as to what people do for a stater in the context of colder fermentation.

[klickitat jim]

I'd start with a smaller beer (1.035-45) and repitch from that to the 1.080 monster

[coastsidemike]

That's so obvious, thanks!  I didn't see it.

[klickitat jim]

No prob. Someone here pointed the same thing out to me.
The longer version, I'd make a 2000ml starter on a stir plate. Toss that in a five gallon 1.040 beer. Then plan my 1.080 brew day for the day after I rack the little one. I'd pitch about three cups of the reused slurry. Skip trying to "wash" it.

[hopfenundmalz]

I have 5 liter flasks for lager starters.

As Jim says you can also do small gravity to big gravity step.

[Jimmy K]

I'd start with a smaller beer (1.035-45) and repitch from that to the 1.080 monster

Good answer.
 
The third step in your first idea won't grow much yeast because the cell density will be too high. It will be higher than ideal at step 2 even. I've seen recommendations for stepped starters that each step should be an order of magnitude larger - so the yeast from a 2L starter would be pitched into 10-20L for proper cell growth. - and what do you know - 20L is 5G!!
 
If you had two vessels, I'd make a 2L starter and split the yeast into two 2L starters for step 2. That would get you better cell growth.

[reverseapachemaster]

I have 5 liter flasks for lager starters.

Those are the size of my one gallon lager batches. Toss it in a wine jug and put it in the back of the kitchen fridge to ferment.

[coastsidemike]

This yeast (Wyeast 2206) just seems too slow at temps below 52, so I figure the starter should not ferment in a fridge but be at room temp. 

Making a 5G batch for the purpose of yeast harvesting will be a new milestone, thanks again for everyone's feedback.

[denny]

This yeast (Wyeast 2206) just seems too slow at temps below 52, so I figure the starter should not ferment in a fridge but be at room temp. 

Making a 5G batch for the purpose of yeast harvesting will be a new milestone, thanks again for everyone's feedback.

Lager yeast starters should always be made at room temp.  You're growing yeast, not making beer, and yeast grows better at warmer temps.  You'll be decanting all that nasty starter wort, anyway.

[redbeerman]

This yeast (Wyeast 2206) just seems too slow at temps below 52, so I figure the starter should not ferment in a fridge but be at room temp. 

Making a 5G batch for the purpose of yeast harvesting will be a new milestone, thanks again for everyone's feedback.

Lager yeast starters should always be made at room temp.  You're growing yeast, not making beer, and yeast grows better at warmer temps.  You'll be decanting all that nasty starter wort, anyway.

+1 and it can get pretty nasty depending on the strain

[kylekohlmorgen]

This yeast (Wyeast 2206) just seems too slow at temps below 52, so I figure the starter should not ferment in a fridge but be at room temp. 

Making a 5G batch for the purpose of yeast harvesting will be a new milestone, thanks again for everyone's feedback.

Lager yeast starters should always be made at room temp.  You're growing yeast, not making beer, and yeast grows better at warmer temps.  You'll be decanting all that nasty starter wort, anyway.

That's what the Yeast book says.

It doesn't take many 5L batches of DME to equal the price of a stir plate...