Author Topic: Sewer ejector system  (Read 1832 times)

Offline narvin

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Sewer ejector system
« on: October 18, 2013, 03:33:29 PM »
Kicking around some ideas for a nano brewery right now (no, I'm not going to quit my job.  yes, my whole life will be beer.  it already is).  I've found some space that's pretty well located, for an industrial park, and reasonably priced.  One of the odd things is that this warehouse is on the lower level of the back of the building and is below sewer level, so the landlord says an "ejector system" would be needed for waste water.  Any idea if this would be a problem to use with floor drains, yeast, etc?  I've only done preliminary investigation into local codes but none of the breweries around here seem to need any kind of sedimentation tank for their waste.

I also have no idea what kind of build-out allowance, if any, a landlord for an existing building will give for thing like water, waste, and power hookups. Is this something I should push for?  The space seems to have been vacant since 2012... oddly, it was an ice cream factory, so I don't know how they didn't have sewer.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Sewer ejector system
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2013, 03:49:23 PM »
I'd do the math on capital. I'm thinking of building a homebrew nano building and all at home. It would have to be useful for a future buyer who isn't necessarily a brewer. I wonder if building wouldn't be cheaper than rent down the road.

Offline narvin

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Re: Sewer ejector system
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2013, 04:30:30 PM »
I live in the city and have no land.  :). Right now I'd gladly pay monthly rent instead of buying a bigger house.  If I did have a space where I could do the backyard shed, I'd definitely consider it.  I like the location, though... 5 minutes from the heart of the city and also directly off of 95.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 04:35:37 PM by narvin »
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Sewer ejector system
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2013, 04:37:38 PM »
My bad. The up side to rent lease is the walk away option.

Offline narvin

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Re: Sewer ejector system
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2013, 05:21:23 PM »
Eventually I think a farmhouse with hops and grain, brewery barn, and land for events would be ideal.  SO loves animals so she'll be on goat duty.  Not quite there yet.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Sewer ejector system
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2013, 06:05:06 PM »
Uh, ya. We did horses when we bought this place. Just to prove to ourselves we weren't horse people anymore. I gave them to a riding school and tore out the fence. Now we have egg chickens. And two ankle biter dogs. Enough critters for me.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Sewer ejector system
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2013, 07:56:00 PM »
You will most likely need a "solid waste interceptor" because the sewer authorities don't really want the sh!t you will be pumping in, regardless of your size. No idea if your situation will work with current set up. Just be aware.

You will need to quit your current job.  Beer will most definitely come to dominate your life. You just think your whole life is beer now. Hardy har har. Har har har. Har.


Its pretty kick ass though, if thats what yer into.
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Offline punatic

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Re: Sewer ejector system
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2013, 10:21:55 PM »
It sounds to me like you will need to pump your wastewater uphill to the nearest wastewater collection system wet well/lift station.  This will entail having your own wastewater wet well and grinding sump pump.

You will also need to neutralize any caustic or acidic waste your brewery produces before you can send it to the municipal waste collection system.  No big deal.  A small wastewater pretreatment collection tank (3000 - 4000gal) will probably do.

They may also make you reduce your BOD5 load too. (The solution to pollution is dilution).

Rule of thumb, brewery-wise:  you will generate 5 gallons of wastewater for every gallon of beer you brew.

You should talk to a wastewater engineer (Environmental or Civil)

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Offline narvin

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Re: Sewer ejector system
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2013, 06:36:46 AM »
It sounds to me like you will need to pump your wastewater uphill to the nearest wastewater collection system wet well/lift station.  This will entail having your own wastewater wet well and grinding sump pump.

You will also need to neutralize any caustic or acidic waste your brewery produces before you can send it to the municipal waste collection system.  No big deal.  A small wastewater pretreatment collection tank (3000 - 4000gal) will probably do.

They may also make you reduce your BOD5 load too. (The solution to pollution is dilution).

Rule of thumb, brewery-wise:  you will generate 5 gallons of wastewater for every gallon of beer you brew.

You should talk to a wastewater engineer (Environmental or Civil)

Thanks, that makes sense.  Still not sure if this would be too much cost or hassle.  Remember, I'm talking nano here.  What did Hess do, since he brewed outside, let everything run down the storm drain?

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Offline majorvices

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Re: Sewer ejector system
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2013, 08:00:56 AM »
We started nano too, and they made us put in a 5000 gallon solid waste interceptor. Your situation may be different. Essentially this keeps yeast and gaskets and other parts that get flushed down the drain out of sewer system. I believe it helps keep caustic out of sewer as well. Carl will know more about it than I.

You realize you will not make a dime on nano scale, right? ;)
Keith Y.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Sewer ejector system
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2013, 08:53:16 AM »
+1 on the ability to make a profit at the nano level.  You will be giving your time away with nothing to show for it.  It takes nearly the same labor to produce 1 bbl as 20 bbl if bottling is not part of the equation.  I'm hoping this is going to be a brew pub so that more of the income can be direct and not have a distributor skimming what little profit there will be.

Carl, unless the brewery operations are really tight and coordinated, there is little chance that a brewery can produce a gallon of beer with only 5 gal of wastewater.  Sierra Nevada is around 4 and they conduct extraordinary measures and reuse the WW.  For most small breweries, 8 gal would be more like it and it could be 10.  For homebrewers, we are in the 15 range.

For a small brewery operation, the WW utility is not likely to concern themselves very much with the strength or volume of the wastewater.  In this case, a simple ejector pump and sump that discharges the WW from the low trench drain area back into the building's normal sewer connection will be sufficient.  The sump size will need to be sufficient to avoid cycling the pump too often.  The pump sizing will need to be based on the rate of WW discharge from the brewing operations and it will need to be within the hydraulic capacity of the building's existing sewer piping.  If the discharge will be greater than the building's sewer hydraulic capacity, then laying a new line all the way to the utility's manhole or sewer will be required.  That's when you need to look for another place.
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Offline narvin

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Re: Sewer ejector system
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2013, 10:01:07 AM »
Thanks Martin.  I'll be sure to take that into account.

Making money?  What kind of plan is that?  ;) I'd consider this a 5 year trial.  If I can pay for the equipment and lease, that's a success.  I'm definitely not interested in going the pub/restaurant route, at least not yet.  As much as brewing can be a full time job, restaurant management is that x 5.
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Offline punatic

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Re: Sewer ejector system
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2013, 10:32:08 AM »
Wastewater regs vary with municipality.  Here, in order to get permtted by the county planning deparment a brewery must submit a projected wastewater analysis to the state department of health wastewater branch.  First a projected analysis, then once in operation actual analyses.  If there is a big discrepancy between the two, the permit may be revoked. This is true regardless if you are discharging to a community waste collection/treatment system or an individual waste treatment system.  If you discharge to an UIC then the state department of health safe drinking water branch gets involved too.

PLEASE, may I have MORE government in my life?!   :P

Actually, dealing with this s*** (that's a pun) has bought me a lot of beer.
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Offline narvin

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Re: Sewer ejector system
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2013, 10:42:58 AM »
Thanks guys.  Good info.  I'll give you an update once I talk to the proper authorities.  In the meantime I can create another thread where you can do your contractually obliged duty to talk me out of it. ;)
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Sewer ejector system
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2013, 12:52:09 PM »
Narvin, Narvin....
I had been in Baltimore area in August. I could have talk you out of it in person. Of course I would bring you a four pack of my Bohemian Pilsner in 16 oz cans.
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