Author Topic: Sparge temp  (Read 2272 times)

Offline burnsie

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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2013, 08:17:01 AM »
Sparge water tends to be just south of boiling 190-200 occasionally i will pull water while it's boiling, i have a chest cooler mash tun and keep at least two inches of water above the grain bed, my sparge lasts about 45 minutes to an hour at least. I trust my thermometer. I rarely use yeast that is beyond it's third use.
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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2013, 08:53:48 AM »
Sparge water tends to be just south of boiling 190-200

That's what it needs to be to get the bed to mashout temperature (>80°C) by the midpoint of the sparge.

Tannin extraction is a function of pH, which has almost no dependence on temperature. The proper thing to do would be check your mash and sparge pH. (And stop using the Buffer 5.2, which could be where the off-flavor is coming from.)
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Offline burnsie

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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2013, 07:11:00 AM »
Still trying to think this out, going to experiment with some wort from my next beer, Just to clarify morticaixavier how much yeast do you mean my a ton? two packets of dry yeast is what i was thinking.
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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2013, 07:18:10 AM »
Still trying to think this out, going to experiment with some wort from my next beer, Just to clarify morticaixavier how much yeast do you mean my a ton? two packets of dry yeast is what i was thinking.

probably 1 packet in a quart would be more than enough
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Offline hubie

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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2013, 11:17:04 AM »
Still trying to think this out, going to experiment with some wort from my next beer, Just to clarify morticaixavier how much yeast do you mean my a ton? two packets of dry yeast is what i was thinking.

probably 1 packet in a quart would be more than enough

Kai Troester has some great info on this (http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fast_Ferment_Test).  He advocates using regular bread yeast if you don't want to use up any of your beer yeast (1/2 tsp to 8 oz wort).  I usually add my test wort to the dregs left in my flask after I pitch my starter, but I've also used bread yeast because I always have it around (I keep a jar of loose yeast in the fridge for baking).  If you don't have loose bread yeast, there is 2-1/4 tsp yeast in a typical bread yeast packet.

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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2013, 11:29:39 AM »
Sparge water tends to be just south of boiling 190-200 occasionally i will pull water while it's boiling, i have a chest cooler mash tun and keep at least two inches of water above the grain bed, my sparge lasts about 45 minutes to an hour at least. I trust my thermometer. I rarely use yeast that is beyond it's third use.
I think i already know the answer to this but does a high sparge temp have an adverse effect on attenuation? I've been heating my sparge water on the high side lately and my efficiency has gone way up but my attenuation has been crappy. Pretty sure i need to lower the temp but just wanted to confirm with some other folks before i make changes. Thanks


I would speculate that it is your conversion that is changing with the higher sparge temps. As Sean alluded you are now getting to mash out temps, which as you near that beta amylase slows and stops, while alpha amalyse speeds up.  With your lower sparge temps you had more beta action.

What are the actual numbers you are talking about? I'm mean are these beers finishing 2 points higher or ten?

Offline burnsie

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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2013, 11:39:52 AM »
Without having my brew sheets to reference i would say gravity tends to be anywhere from 8-5 points off. Readings after three weeks of fermentation have been between 1.020 and 1.022. OG has been between 1.052 and 1.056.
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Offline repo

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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2013, 12:08:23 PM »
Without having my brew sheets to reference i would say gravity tends to be anywhere from 8-5 points off. Readings after three weeks of fermentation have been between 1.020 and 1.022. OG has been between 1.052 and 1.056.

That does seem a bit much for my previous theory to be accurate.

Offline yso191

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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2013, 03:21:10 PM »
I want to follow up on this sparge temp issue.  Clearly the previous posters who said that tannin extraction is due to pH are correct.  But I would argue that it is also a function of temperature.  According to a number of brewing experts (Palmer, et al.) one should not sparge with water over 170* specifically to avoid tannin extraction.

Now I am fairly sure that the experienced brewer who monitors the mash pH, can and does (as you have said you do) avoid tannin extraction above that temp.  What I am saying is that this practice should probably be left to those experienced brewers who know for sure it will work - but not for the new brewer nor should it be communicated that this is a general rule.

For the average home brewer the extremely small cost associated with the increase in efficiency is basically of no value, but the safety in being sure to avoid tannin extraction would be far more important IMO.

I hesitated in saying the above for a couple of days because I am not what I would call an expert home brewer, and as a consequence usually defer to those with more knowledge and experience... But I think I'm right on this point.  However, as always I am open to being corrected.
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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2013, 03:23:51 PM »
I want to follow up on this sparge temp issue.  Clearly the previous posters who said that tannin extraction is due to pH are correct.  But I would argue that it is also a function of temperature.  According to a number of brewing experts (Palmer, et al.) one should not sparge with water over 170* specifically to avoid tannin extraction.

Now I am fairly sure that the experienced brewer who monitors the mash pH, can and does (as you have said you do) avoid tannin extraction above that temp.  What I am saying is that this practice should probably be left to those experienced brewers who know for sure it will work - but not for the new brewer nor should it be communicated that this is a general rule.

For the average home brewer the extremely small cost associated with the increase in efficiency is basically of no value, but the safety in being sure to avoid tannin extraction would be far more important IMO.

I hesitated in saying the above for a couple of days because I am not what I would call an expert home brewer, and as a consequence usually defer to those with more knowledge and experience... But I think I'm right on this point.  However, as always I am open to being corrected.

while I see your point and it's a valid one, I would add that pH in the mash is important for more than just avoiding tannin extraction. And the pH range is the same that you want to see in your mash and sparge water to make sure you get the right Kettle pH AND to avoid tannin extraction.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2013, 04:58:27 PM »
I want to follow up on this sparge temp issue.  Clearly the previous posters who said that tannin extraction is due to pH are correct.  But I would argue that it is also a function of temperature.  According to a number of brewing experts (Palmer, et al.) one should not sparge with water over 170* specifically to avoid tannin extraction.

Now I am fairly sure that the experienced brewer who monitors the mash pH, can and does (as you have said you do) avoid tannin extraction above that temp.  What I am saying is that this practice should probably be left to those experienced brewers who know for sure it will work - but not for the new brewer nor should it be communicated that this is a general rule.

For the average home brewer the extremely small cost associated with the increase in efficiency is basically of no value, but the safety in being sure to avoid tannin extraction would be far more important IMO.

I hesitated in saying the above for a couple of days because I am not what I would call an expert home brewer, and as a consequence usually defer to those with more knowledge and experience... But I think I'm right on this point.  However, as always I am open to being corrected.
Steve, I would add that using software such as Bru'nWater is simple (nothing more than a spreadsheet with lots of help) and VERY effective.  Since making the switch I can't convey how simple and consistent it makes the process.  Martin sort of steers you to make mash and sparge additions to your water, so if you are careful to list your grist accurately and desired water volumes accurately, you won't have to worry about sparge temps. I do what Denny does (never bad, right?) and sparge at ~ 190F ( sometimes closer to 195F), and make the best beer I've ever made. Actually I had my astringency problems sparging a little cooler in the old days when I used to "wing it" and try to get in the ballpark of pH. Try it - just like brewing all grain for the first time, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about !
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Offline denny

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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2013, 09:17:28 AM »
I want to follow up on this sparge temp issue.  Clearly the previous posters who said that tannin extraction is due to pH are correct.  But I would argue that it is also a function of temperature.  According to a number of brewing experts (Palmer, et al.) one should not sparge with water over 170* specifically to avoid tannin extraction.

Now I am fairly sure that the experienced brewer who monitors the mash pH, can and does (as you have said you do) avoid tannin extraction above that temp.  What I am saying is that this practice should probably be left to those experienced brewers who know for sure it will work - but not for the new brewer nor should it be communicated that this is a general rule.

For the average home brewer the extremely small cost associated with the increase in efficiency is basically of no value, but the safety in being sure to avoid tannin extraction would be far more important IMO.

I hesitated in saying the above for a couple of days because I am not what I would call an expert home brewer, and as a consequence usually defer to those with more knowledge and experience... But I think I'm right on this point.  However, as always I am open to being corrected.

Steve, you can look at it this way...if your pH is good, you can sparge with water much hotter than 170 with no ill effects.  After all, if it was temp alone, decoction mashes wouldn't be done.  But if your pH is off, it won't matter much what temp water you sparge with...you'll still risk tannins.
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Offline wort-h.o.g.

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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2013, 02:47:53 PM »
I want to follow up on this sparge temp issue.  Clearly the previous posters who said that tannin extraction is due to pH are correct.  But I would argue that it is also a function of temperature.  According to a number of brewing experts (Palmer, et al.) one should not sparge with water over 170* specifically to avoid tannin extraction.

Now I am fairly sure that the experienced brewer who monitors the mash pH, can and does (as you have said you do) avoid tannin extraction above that temp.  What I am saying is that this practice should probably be left to those experienced brewers who know for sure it will work - but not for the new brewer nor should it be communicated that this is a general rule.

For the average home brewer the extremely small cost associated with the increase in efficiency is basically of no value, but the safety in being sure to avoid tannin extraction would be far more important IMO.

I hesitated in saying the above for a couple of days because I am not what I would call an expert home brewer, and as a consequence usually defer to those with more knowledge and experience... But I think I'm right on this point.  However, as always I am open to being corrected.

Steve, you can look at it this way...if your pH is good, you can sparge with water much hotter than 170 with no ill effects.  After all, if it was temp alone, decoction mashes wouldn't be done.  But if your pH is off, it won't matter much what temp water you sparge with...you'll still risk tannins.
+1 and good to see you Denny..i've been away traveling so much, but i'm back in the beer making business again!

Offline dzlater

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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2013, 05:31:05 AM »
I want to follow up on this sparge temp issue.  Clearly the previous posters who said that tannin extraction is due to pH are correct.  But I would argue that it is also a function of temperature.  According to a number of brewing experts (Palmer, et al.) one should not sparge with water over 170* specifically to avoid tannin extraction.

Now I am fairly sure that the experienced brewer who monitors the mash pH, can and does (as you have said you do) avoid tannin extraction above that temp.  What I am saying is that this practice should probably be left to those experienced brewers who know for sure it will work - but not for the new brewer nor should it be communicated that this is a general rule.

For the average home brewer the extremely small cost associated with the increase in efficiency is basically of no value, but the safety in being sure to avoid tannin extraction would be far more important IMO.

I hesitated in saying the above for a couple of days because I am not what I would call an expert home brewer, and as a consequence usually defer to those with more knowledge and experience... But I think I'm right on this point.  However, as always I am open to being corrected.

Steve, you can look at it this way...if your pH is good, you can sparge with water much hotter than 170 with no ill effects.  After all, if it was temp alone, decoction mashes wouldn't be done.But if your pH is off, it won't matter much what temp water you sparge with...you'll still risk tannins.

That's interesting.
 Since I don't have any way to check pH I try and keep my sparge temps. under 170f just to be on the safe side. But your saying it doesn't make a differance?

Offline Wheat_Brewer

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Re: Sparge temp
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2013, 08:45:34 AM »
I want to follow up on this sparge temp issue.  Clearly the previous posters who said that tannin extraction is due to pH are correct.  But I would argue that it is also a function of temperature.  According to a number of brewing experts (Palmer, et al.) one should not sparge with water over 170* specifically to avoid tannin extraction.

Now I am fairly sure that the experienced brewer who monitors the mash pH, can and does (as you have said you do) avoid tannin extraction above that temp.  What I am saying is that this practice should probably be left to those experienced brewers who know for sure it will work - but not for the new brewer nor should it be communicated that this is a general rule.

For the average home brewer the extremely small cost associated with the increase in efficiency is basically of no value, but the safety in being sure to avoid tannin extraction would be far more important IMO.

I hesitated in saying the above for a couple of days because I am not what I would call an expert home brewer, and as a consequence usually defer to those with more knowledge and experience... But I think I'm right on this point.  However, as always I am open to being corrected.

Steve, you can look at it this way...if your pH is good, you can sparge with water much hotter than 170 with no ill effects.  After all, if it was temp alone, decoction mashes wouldn't be done.But if your pH is off, it won't matter much what temp water you sparge with...you'll still risk tannins.

That's interesting.
 Since I don't have any way to check pH I try and keep my sparge temps. under 170f just to be on the safe side. But your saying it doesn't make a differance?


I know this is off the original topic but these these responses really sparked my interest...assuming we control the pH of the mash, and we're only sparging, why heat up sparge water at all? I've always heard we should have sparge water around 170 but never above that temp for all the reasons listed in previous responses...but if the core of this thread is saying water temp doesn't matter for tannin issues why bother with heating sparge water? 
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