Author Topic: Brewing an Imperial Porter - Need Suggestions for Second Running Beer  (Read 828 times)

Offline ultravista

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I will be brewing an imperial porter with a gravity of about 1.086 to 1.088 this weekend and looking for suggestions for a second running's batch.

I haven't done it before and could use some help, including, wort collection and storage if necessary. With one burner and kettle, it will have to wait until the next day if the brew day runs late.

What can I make from the second running's, what kind of gravity can I expect, how much wort should I collect the second time around, and what amendments should I ad?

In the freezer I have plenty of DME and about a pound of Perle. I have some WLP530 stored from a Westy 12 clone too. Not sure how any of this would work but maybe a weird Belgiany porter with a pound of caramelized raisins, brown or Mexican sugar, or ...?


cornershot

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Re: Brewing an Imperial Porter - Need Suggestions for Second Running Beer
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2013, 05:47:34 AM »
I often brew a small beer from the second runnings of a big beer. I'd say just take what you get and have fun with it. From an imperial porter, you might get something like a mild. IME it's always been 3 or 4 gallons of ~1.020-25 wort that ferments way too dry and is of lesser quality. But it's free(ish) so why not?
Things I have done to compensate:
Collect less, and stronger 2nd runnings.
Add sugar to bump the gravity. Keep it cheap!
Add DME. This is obvious but it's expensive and you may not want to use much in the second runnings from a dark beer as the results might not be to your liking.
Use more base malt in the grist but try to hit your starting gravity, thus leaving more sugars for the small beer.
Add more malt to the grist and do a second mash at higher temperature.
Use maltodextrin to combat the low finishing gravity.
Steep specialty malts to give it more body and character.
Use a less attenuative yeast.
Traditionally I think the late hops from the first beer were used to bitter the small beer. Cheap.
Or go for something hoppy! Use the opportunity to try out a new hop.
I have also added a small amount of lactic acid, cacl or gypsum depending on the beer.
Www.braukaiser.com has a parti gyle simulator.  http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparge_and_Party_Gyle_Simulator That may be helpful.

Have fun with it!


« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 05:53:17 AM by Big Al »

Offline ultravista

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Re: Brewing an Imperial Porter - Need Suggestions for Second Running Beer
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2013, 06:43:13 AM »
The grist bill is ...

Amt                   Name                              %         
9 lbs 8.0 oz   Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)         51.0 %       
2 lbs 4.0 oz   Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM)                 12.1 %       
2 lbs 4.0 oz   Mild Malt (4.0 SRM)                      12.1 %       
1 lbs          Caramel Malt - 120L (Briess) (120.0 SRM) 5.4 %         
1 lbs          Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM)               5.4 %         
12.0 oz        Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM)                   4.0 %         
12.0 oz        Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)                  4.0 %         
6.1 oz         Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)    2.0 %         
5.0 oz         Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM)    1.7 %         
5.0 oz         Kiln Coffee Malt (165.0 SRM)             1.7 %         
2.1 oz         Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM)          0.7

Offline kramerog

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Re: Brewing an Imperial Porter - Need Suggestions for Second Running Beer
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2013, 06:50:59 AM »
Let me add to Big Al's list.  You can easily add anything that doesn't require a mash to the mash tun after the 1st running such as caramel malts, dark malts or roasted barley.  You can also do separate mini-mashes for the 2nd running.  You can manipulate your grain bill and volume of water for the initial mash so that you have a more substantial 2nd running (subject to having enough room in your mash tun).  I have used 2 qt/lb for the mash to get a better 2nd running.  You can play with the parti-gyle simulator mentioned by Big Al to see how these factors play out.

Since your 2nd running is probably going to be a dark brown from roasted malts, I recommend a brown porter or a small stout as the easiest beer to make.  It would require some work to turn your 2nd running into a marginal dubbel; not worth the effort if you ask me.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 06:54:43 AM by kramerog »
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Offline ultravista

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Re: Brewing an Imperial Porter - Need Suggestions for Second Running Beer
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2013, 06:54:29 AM »
I could always add a few pounds of fresh 2 row as an inexpensive option to boost the gravity. I'd like to do something different with the batch using WLP530 (Belgian strain), raisins, and sugar too. Just not sure what to do.

Offline kramerog

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Re: Brewing an Imperial Porter - Need Suggestions for Second Running Beer
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2013, 07:03:46 AM »
I could always add a few pounds of fresh 2 row as an inexpensive option to boost the gravity. I'd like to do something different with the batch using WLP530 (Belgian strain), raisins, and sugar too. Just not sure what to do.

Here are some initial suggestions for doing something Belgiany with your 2nd running.  1. Cold extract overnight all your roasted malts for your porter and put the extract in the kettle, not the mash tun.  2.  Use some Vienna malts and Special B for your 2nd running either as a separate mini-mash or as a 2nd mash.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Brewing an Imperial Porter - Need Suggestions for Second Running Beer
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2013, 07:04:41 AM »
With some piloncillo, perle hops and Belgian yeast you could produce a Belgian brown really easily. It wouldn't quite be a dubbel but somewhere in between like a Leffe Brown and a dubbel. An interesting idea, since you can't do both boils the same day, would be to sour the wort for 2-3 days and create sort of a fast oud bruin.

I use Kai's partigyle simulator to figure out the gravities of the two beers. You can also take those gravities and volumes from the simulator and scale your recipes in your recipe software to create close estimates of what the two beers are getting from the mash. That will make it easier to figure out the hops and any other additions of fermentables in the small beer.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Brewing an Imperial Porter - Need Suggestions for Second Running Beer
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2013, 07:24:25 AM »
If you want to go Belgian, I would add some D-45 or other candi syrup to bump the gravity.

I like the flavors I've gotten from 45 better than those I've gotten from 90 but either would work.

It will add to the cost, but if you want Belgian this is the way to go IMO.

I agree with Kramerog on the 2nd mash. I would suggest some Munich and a touch of aromatic, but his suggestion is good, too.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Brewing an Imperial Porter - Need Suggestions for Second Running Beer
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2013, 10:23:28 AM »
You could pressure cooker can the second run and use it for yeast starter.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Brewing an Imperial Porter - Need Suggestions for Second Running Beer
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2013, 10:32:06 AM »
The grist bill is ...

Amt                   Name                              %         
9 lbs 8.0 oz   Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)         51.0 %       
2 lbs 4.0 oz   Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM)                 12.1 %       
2 lbs 4.0 oz   Mild Malt (4.0 SRM)                      12.1 %       
1 lbs          Caramel Malt - 120L (Briess) (120.0 SRM) 5.4 %         
1 lbs          Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM)               5.4 %         
12.0 oz        Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM)                   4.0 %         
12.0 oz        Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)                  4.0 %         
6.1 oz         Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)    2.0 %         
5.0 oz         Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM)    1.7 %         
5.0 oz         Kiln Coffee Malt (165.0 SRM)             1.7 %         
2.1 oz         Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM)          0.7

when I do a partigyle I find I get the equivalent of about 45 - 50% brewhouse efficiency from the first runnings and ~25-30% on the second runnings. I usually toss in some crystal and maybe another lb of base malt and let it rest for another 20 minutes before running off the second runnings. I run them off into fermenter buckets and seal till the other boil is done.
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Offline ultravista

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Re: Brewing an Imperial Porter - Need Suggestions for Second Running Beer
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2013, 07:45:13 AM »
For the second beer, I downsized the original recipe to 2 gallons in Beersmith (sans hops and yeast), added the grains, about 4.5 pounds to the second mash, and collected about 4.5 gallons.

I added 1.5 oz. of fuggles at 60 minutes, 1 pound of grated piloncillo, 1 pound of caramelized raisins, and .5 oz. of fuggles at 15 minutes.

The raisins were hit with a propane torch to until the skin blistered and bubbled. I drew wort off the kettle, pureed the raisins, and dumped the slurry into the hop bag to keep the wort clean.

With a lid on the keggle, I boiled the first addition of hops and raisins for 30 minutes.

Post boil, the gravity at 3.75 gallons was about 1.068-1.070. I pitched an active slurry of WLP530 and let it go.

I decided not to add O2 for this batch, just to see how it goes. The fermentation chamber is occupied with the first batch so this one is sitting in the garage at an ambient temp of 64F. Measuring the beer internally, it is 70F.

Hope it tastes good.